ianc
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Posts posted by ianc
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According to the original Workshop Manual, TR2/3 should have the front wheels parallel to 1/8" (0.125") toe-in. Nowadays, tyre places do it all on degrees, so you need to calculate that 1/8" across the radius of the tyred wheel (about 13.5"). According to my "Four Figure Tables", which I have had since the 1950s, the wheels should be set between zeo and half a degree toe-in.
I am a little concerned that people are contemplating the bending of steering arms in the home workshop - get it wrong and you, your pride and joy and a few other people might be finished. In the total scheme of things, steering is a vital safety feature, and it must surely be worth a few hundred quid to ensure it is safe? I'm not in the job of plugging any one supplier's R&P against another, but would just observe that I believe the Revington product is more expensive because it addresses the problem of bump steer and also provides Ackerman geometry - something not found in any TR2-6 when it was produced. Who/what is Ackerman? Ackerman geometry means that the wheel on the inside of the curve turns through a greater angle than the outer wheel, which is what it ought to do. That said, both Protek and Moss have sold many R&P conversion kits and the comments I have heard have been "why didn't Triumph do it" and "wish I had done it sooner".
Ian Cornish
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There should be a 4-figure number in small characters immediately beneath the total mileage odometer, and that is the original calibration of the instrument. The number will be about 1164 for a car with 3.7 axle and originally fitted with 155 or 165 section radial tyres (or even cross-plies), which would have been higher profile than most tyres used by TR people these days. Apart from possible error in the odometer itself, other contributory factors are: axle ratio, tyre size and aspect ratio. A 19 x 65 tyre is almost the same diameter as an original (1950/1960) 165 x 15, but if the tyres are differnet, the axle ratio has been changed, or a different speedo fitted, things can be awry.
Ian Gibson wrote a technical article on this subject very many moons ago (it might have been whilst I was Technical Editor, which would be up to 1986), and it should be on the CD.
Ian Cornish
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You can get your car weighed for about £10 + VAT at a Public Weighbridge - call the Weights & Measures Dept of your local Council for details. I did, and I can tell you that 4VC weighs 1016 kg (2240 lbs or an Imperial ton or 20 cwt) with some 28 kg (60lbs) of spares & tools and 12 gallons of fuel (tank is 18 gallons), and its "Surrey" metal lid in position. I suspect that a standard TR4 with "Surrey" top, full tank and a more normal collection of tools and spares (I carry a lot!) would weigh about 1016 kg, as it would have steel, not alloy, panels. A TR4A would weigh a bit more, but never 1380 kg!
Ian Cornish
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Wear over many years will be uneven on the joint. So, when adjusting the shimming and/or tightening the joint, it is VITAL to ensure that the joint is capable of movement in ALL directions over its full operating range. If you fail to do this, it may bind and thereby impose a bending strain on the neck between its ball end and the rod, and this can lead to fracture of the neck. I suspect that this is what happened to 4VC's steering on the way to Malvern in July 2004 - I was very fortunate that there was nothing about and I managed to come to a halt in a reasonably straight line (from about 50 mph), even though there was no longer a steering connection to the left front wheel and it was only the gyroscopic effect which was keeping it running in a straightish line! Stopping was scary enough (even light application of the footbrake was causing the left wheel to turn left, so maintaining control was not easy!), discovering the reason for the car's misbehaviour was even scarier! I didn't damage the car, any other vehicle or the grassy bank, so count myself very fortunate indeed.
I would agree that it is best to carry out adjustments with the rack off the car, and if parts are well-worn, get them replaced. No steering is most definitely a Health & Safety business!
You can obtain shims from Moss, I believe. The spring within the joint is compressed only a small amount, and it will not cause everything to fly asunder when the joint is taken apart. Full instructions are in the Workshop Manual.
Ian Cornish
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I have the early TR4 rack, which is mounted solidly on two arms projecting upwards from the chassis. I had the rack rebuilt early in 2005 through Revington TR. The worn rack and pinion (and they were worn - I saw them!) were replaced and all other worn items replaced. It came back with a grease nipple fitted, and I have used it. The work wasn't cheap, but one's life depends upon that item, and I had suffered a failure of the left steering arm on the way to Malvern in July 2004, so wanted to make sure that all would be well for the rest of my lifetime!
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Jonlar has the right idea, but you need to size for the load. If you hang 5 spots onto the front in addition to your headlamps, and put 100 watt bulbs in each, you could be burning 700 watts at the front alone! That is 58 amps, and things would get a bit warm if 40 amp cable were used. The simple rule is: decide what you want to install, calculate the load (watts), divide by 12 (volts) and you have the current. Choose cabling to suit, remembering that, for example, two 25 amp cables in parallel will carry 50 amps and will be more flexible than a single 50 amp cable. Use copper, not aluminium - it's the better conductor (and one can solder to it).
Ian
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Yes, access to the spare wheel is easier on a TR2/3/3A, but you are limited to about 165 section tyre. The Works TR4s used alloy bootlids (without a frame) on Tulip and Alpine Rallies, but steel bootlid (with frame) and the extra spare wheel for the really bad stuff (Liège-Sofia-Liège). All three cars (3/4/6VC) have their original unframed, alloy bootlids.
Solid axle TR4A: the frame is waisted in the middle (as on all the IRS cars), so is not quite as strong in torsion as the TR4. However, I am not sure one would notice the difference. I can say that a TR4 chassis with the full Works Rally mods and the metal "Surrey" lid is certainly stiffer than any other TR with a chassis, unless one goes the whole hog and installs a roll bar with side arms (across the doorways) and a hoop beneath the scuttle.
You may be interested to know that Neil Revington has made use on 6VC of the considerable space either side of the spare wheel tray (and behind the rear wheel, inside the arch), and is able to carry a compact trolley jack (nose down into the space) on one side and a tools on the other. The mods are only visible if one looks under the wheel arches or into the boot. Cunning! Of course, one could make similar modifications to allow space for more conventional luggage in a "touring" car.
Ian
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The TR4 does have a larger boot than the TR2/3, which is advantageous for longer trips. In addition, there is greater width in the cockpit.
My personal opinion is that 6 joints in the transmission line, the camber changes at the rear and the less rigid chassis hardly rate as an improvement in the move from TR4 to TR4A - but I have always driven TRs with leaf-sprung rear ends (since 1963), so am biased!
Ian Cornish
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Beware putting "a really big" alternator in your TR. The wiring was sized for about 25-30 amps, and if you put an alternator rated at, say, 70 amps in place of your dynamo or more modest alternator, you risk setting fire to your pride and joy! If you really need that sort of output, then you need to consider the wires which will be carrying the extra current and uprate them accordingly. You can do this either by running extra cable in parallel on the relevant routes or by replacing those runs with heavier duty cable. Might be worth considering extra fusing, too, as the standard arrangements are pretty pathetic (two fuses in a TR2/3/4). If you are feeding, for example, a number of powerful head and spot lamps, it is worth running busbars (one being the positive feed, the other being an "earth" return, as relying on the bodywork is inadequate when the loads are large) to the front of the car and then supplying each lamp from the positive busbar through a relay and a fuse. That way, you will deliver as many volts as possible to each lamp and if you should get a short, you should blow only one fuse but still keep everything else running. The Works TR4s had separate fuses for each of the four headlamp filaments and yet more fuses for the spotlamps and all the other stuff - a total of 16 fuses in all.
My article from the early 90s, which is on the Technicalities CD, details how to carry out the conversion from dynamo to alternator - it is not difficult!
Ian Cornish (yes, I am a Chartered Electrical Engineer!)
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You could use the silicone bathroom sealant (normally used round joint between the top of the bath and the tiles). Squirt some down the holes in the casting and coat each bolt before pushing them in and bolting. You would need to wait 24 hours for the stuff to cure, but it should be capable of coping with the 7 lb/square inch pressure.
Ian
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I have been running with a Piranha (now called Newtronic, I believe) system on 4VC since 1993 - works very well and, once set, doesn't go out of adjustment. It uses a light beam and a 4-bladed chopper as the trigger. Just wipe the inside of the Distributor Cap occasionally, to remove graphite dust from the rubbing of the centre post on the top of the Rotor Arm. If you have a later "Lucas" Rotor Arm, throw it away! I've had two of these fail without warning in 14 years. Buy a couple of quality Rotor Arms (one as spare) which are now available from Martin Jay (Distributor Doctor).
Ian
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Ouch ... makes me wince just to read that! When I was young (a very long time ago), a favourite dare for lads living in the country was to pee on an electric fence - guaranteed to make you jump and your eyes water!
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Using a srewjack (not hydraulic) located beneath the car and an appropriate length of square-ended timber, slightly slacken off the 2 adjustng bolts and then apply a little upward movement to the mounting bracket via the timber using the screw jack, before re-tightening and checking the result. Patience is required, and it may be necessary to make a series of adjustments before everything lines up correctly. Of course, this operation may be required on both sides.
Best of luck, Ian
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Hi Don,
Thanks for the feedback - I did have one of the shocks come loose as you describe when we were touring in Italy last year - it's very noticeable and very hard to ignore when it happens! And you are so right about the difficulty in getting anything on to the bolt heads because they are so near the shock body. I like the "tube/washer" idea very much and will look at using that when I put everything back together.
Regards,
Steve
Always use a spring washer under the bolt head and use "Lock & Seal" (from Loctite) on the thread of the bolts - it will prevent vibration loosening them. I use Lock & Seal on everything which doesn't have a Nyloc nut - saves a lot of bother, and there is no problem undoing the bolt should you need to.
Ian
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SPARES DEVELOPMENT FUND (SDF)
As there has been considerable discussion both here and in other parts of the Forum about the SDF, I have just created a NEW subject area, entitled "Spares Development Fund", on the Main Forum area, with an open invitation to ALL owners of TRs, whether or not they be members of the Spares Development Fund (SDF), to state what items the SDF should be considering as future projects.
If interested, please read what I have posted there and post your contributions there, not here.
Thanks for all the useful information posted thus far - be assured that I have read every word!
Ian Cornish
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Plug the bypass hose (the curved one from the thermostat housing down to the pump) - that will speed the warming-up process and the warmer water will be going to the heater. If you do a lot of winter motoring, you could consider one of Revington's extra powerful, 3-speed heater kits, either installed inside your existing heater housing or (for more money!) a complete replacement unit.
To plug the bypass hose, you can use a suitable lump of brass or steel (I found something suitable amongst my various items of plumbing fittings), stuff it down the bypass hose (it will tend to jam at the bend) and, to ensure that it can't possibly migrate further, put a jubilee clip round the hose at that point. If you are worried about blocking flow completely, drill a small hole in the centre of the plug before installing it. Remember that the water pump is not really a pump, it is an impeller, so it will not cause it problems to have this restriction in place as long as you don't use high engine revs before the thermostat has opened fully - but, being a considerate person, you wouldn't do such a thing. I have found that this simple mod, which I installed on 4VC some years ago, makes a significant difference to the rate at which the system warms up.
Ian
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Alessandro Migliavacca of Kafer Carrozzeria in Pavia, Italy, is restoring a TR2 and wants to get hold of 850043 (LH) and 85004 (RH) parts to complete the work. Unfortunately, these parts are not available at the moment from Moss, which has nearly 100 on back order on Heritage, the sole supplier. If you have these parts for sale, please contact Alessandro at info@kafer-carrozzeria.com. By the way, this company is one of those listed in the European Brakedown Directory.
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I suggest you talk to Neil about power assistance on dual circuit brakes - he is always coming up with new ideas/products. I believe that his split front/rear set-up slightly increases the amount of effort required of your right leg, as the total piston area of the 2 master cylinders exceeds that of the original single unit, but it is not an enormous increase, and I have driven 3VC without feeling that it lacked brakes!
I owned two TR2s in the 1960s - the first was drums all round, and would slow from 90 to 30 mph, but didn't really want to stop! The second had been fitted with disc front brakes and was a revelation! Neither had a servo. When I bought 4VC in 1969, it had a servo (quite right, the Works Rally cars were so equipped) - and I disliked it for a number of reasons: as I slowed to a halt, I had to relieve pressure on the pedal at low speed if I wanted to get constant deceleration; it seemed to impose a fractional delay in operation; I never had a nice hard feel to the brakes; difficult to tell when the front wheel bearings needed adjustment. I removed the contraption very soon, and got back to proper brakes! Even though I am only 5' 6" and weigh less than 10 stones (140 lbs in the USA), I find that a TR, which only weighs about a ton, has superbly progressive braking and, with 195/65 Pirellis, I can just lock the front wheels (even at my advanced age!). However, maximum braking requires that the wheels do NOT lock. Some cars (Vauxhalls being the worst I have met) have far too much assistance, such that a sneeze whilst braking will lock the wheels and you are out of control. In contrast, my Citroen Xantia has excellent servo assistance (i.e. very little) and the feel is ideal.
I agree entirely with fitting braided brake hoses - it makes the pedal feel much harder and gives one so much greater security.
Ian
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Thanks for all these responses, which show that we (the SDF Committee) need to do something to lift the veil! I will write a piece for TRaction (have missed the deadline for 217, so it will be 218) covering projects past, current and in the "possibles" tray. I will also explain how to join (there is no annual sub, just a one-off payment), how many members we have and the state of the SFD's finances. The biggest project ever undertaken was the assistance with the funding for the reproduction cylinder heads (iron and alloy) which you can buy from Moss or from the other specialists who take the basic casting and do further things to it (e.g. bigger valves). The next project is a casting, but on a much much smaller scale, and we hope to see it appear in 2007 (we expected the gestation period would be similar to that of a dog, but I think we have that of an elephant!).
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In the 1960s, I had a couple of TR2s, the first with the early sidescreens (fixed window & zip) and the second with the TR3 (sliding panel) type. Snow and ice were the norm in winters in those days (yes - even in the southeast of England!), so I was able to compare the types under testing conditions! The early sidescreen, with fixed plastic window and a zipped entry slot suffers from two major disadvantages:
(1) in the winter, the wet zip freezes and becomes immoveable, so entry to the car becomes impossible (the fasteners for the hood will probably have frozen too!).
(2) the early TR2 has no scuttle vent and the heater just re-circulates the air, which becomes ever damper (human beings respire damp air), so the inside of the car becomes an oxygen-depleted sauna. This may be ideal for growing tropical plants, but it is not so great for driving - the screen and all other windows become covered in mist!
The sliding panel in the TR3 sidescreen can freeze up, but one can coat the sliding surfaces with, for example, Waxoyl, to reduce that risk. Also, one can apply de-icer more readily to the runners and use a screwdriver to lever the panel forward. Once free, one can drive the car with the side panel(s) open and thereby get some fresh air into the cockpit.
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I will have a report very soon regarding the project on this side of the pond. Seems that I have a source for a genuine "engineering sample". I will keep you all apprised as this develops. Incidentally, I discovered my company routinely uses 3-dimensional scanning and multi-axis CNC milling to produce engineering prototypes for all sorts of automotive and hydraulic components, including superchargers!
Check this out: http://www.eatonperformance.com/supercharg...erchargers.html
Frank - if you think you have a viable project with these aeroscreens, please contact me direct: ifcornish@btinternet.com The Spares Development Fund (SDF) might well be able to assist with the financing.
Incidentally, members of the TR Register are NOT automatically members of the SDF - there is a separate, one-off, fee to join the SDF. It is a minimum of £5 (that was set in the early 1970s), but I would suggest that a minimum of £10 is a more realistic figure these days. In those far distant days, it seemed so important to me that Cox & Buckles should have the cash to buy some of the marvellous stuff that would otherwise have gone for scrap (and a lot did, I'm sorry to say), so I subscribed £25. I reckon it was worth it just for the brand new pair of SU carbs which Cox sold me for about £25 at a meeting at Tetsworth.
Ian Cornish
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As a member of the 4-man Committee of the Spares Development Fund (SDF), I can confirm that we have been trying to progress this for at least 3 years. However, as Chris Cunnington has explained, it is by no means simple. There's a lot of individual metal parts, all of which seem to be "special" (even the wing nuts), and a piece of glass with sealing rubber. If Clive really believes he could make it happen, I suggest he contacts Mike Ellis (TR2/3 Registrar - e-mail in the back of TRaction). The SDF is prepared to put money towards the project, as long as we are certain the COMPLETE screens can be manufactured in small batches - probably some 100 pairs as a starter. Together with Mervyn Parkes, I shall be at the Triumph Show at Stoneleigh on Sunday 11th February, if anyone wishes to discuss this further.
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I'm not sure which of the two isolator switches actuates the ovedrive in 3rd, but if it's the same one as for 4th, then I would suggest checking the switch adjustment, or even swapping the switches over to see if the problem moves from 3rd/4th to 2nd. May help isolate the problem
(Groan, sorry)
There is but one isolator switch for 3rd and 4th gears, and it is the switch mounted forward and left on the top cover - the switch for 2nd is further back and right. This is because, when you move the gear lever to the RIGHT to go from 2nd to 3rd, the bottom end of the lever moves to the LEFT to pick up the selector shaft. For a quick check on the validity of your wiring, put a wire link across the terminals of the suspect switch and, with the gearbox in neutral, see whether the solenoid operates as soon as you operate the dashboard switch. Are you certain that you have a Selector Fork with the lumps on the top which are there to operate the switch? (you should be able to tell if you unscrew & remove the switch and then operate the selector from neutral to 3rd and from neutral to 4th. You'll need a torch or a screwdriver down the hole (don't get it jammed!).
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You may recall that in July last year I lent a surrey rear window glass to Uroglas as a pattern for them to manufacture a new quantity.
They are still having problems finding a manufacturer who can make them.
At the present time the glass has been to Spain, Finland and is currently in Ireland
I am hoping to get a further update shortly and will let you know the progress as soon as possible.
For anyone who is desperate, I believe Revington has the window in plastic, and also the surround (with built-in steel roll bar, if required) in fibreglass.
Rack & pinion conversion
in TR2/3/3A/3B Forum
Posted
I have just looked up the toe-in figure given me by Neil Revington - he specifies 20 minutes of arc, which is one-third of a degree (60 minutes in a degree). This agrees with my figure of zero to half a degree.
Ian Cornish