TR7 / 8 still unloved and underated

[Guest RVL]

In 1989 I bought a DHC TR7 and then converted it to a V8. I'm now selling this car (See Buy /Sell /Trade). When I set about trying to sell it last year through TRaction, it attracted limited interest. Considering that the car is in reasonably good order and goes like the wind - I was astounded.

 

The TR7 is still berated as not being a real TR and having weird styling, etc. (sadly even by some within the TR Register). Much of the prejudice against the car is unfounded. The monocoque shell gives the car a relatively spacious interior and with the right suspension it may be comfortable as well as having the capability to be muscled around corners without drama. I love TR6s 5s 4s 3s 2s etc. and don't knock them, but it has to be appreciated that taking the TR6 for example you don't get that same level of interior space that you do in the 7/8 and the bolt on chassis set up can remove fillings faster than your dentist.

 

The TR7 4 cylinder engine was not that much down on power or performance of the last of the TR6s (with all that emissions stuff fitted,detuning and so on) although the TR7 engine never sounded as good as the straight six, but the TR7 engine gives much better economy and reliability. I once owned a 2.5PI and didn't enjoy the lucas injection pump problems, suffered moreso in the TR6. The engine itself wasn't unreliable but the bits attached to it often were.

 

The wedge styling of the TR7 will always be a subjective matter. In my view BL didn't give it the best embellishment and some of options (such as wheels) fitted to the car were an abomination. However when these cars are upgraded tastefully with some restraint and sensitivity I think that the TR7 is a real good looker.

 

The TR7 design was bold and forward looking. It had also to take account of radical new criteria affecting car design and manufacture at the time. The history of the car is well documented and doesn't need me to retell the tale. Some decisions affecting the car development were at best woeful.

 

Ford tried something similarly bold with the redesign of the Ford Scorpio which was mercilessly derided. Now it seems that other manufacturers are just catching up with the design. Anyone who has had the sheer pleasure of driving the Ford Scorpio 24v Cosworth will realise what a well kept secret and wolf in sheep's clothing that car is. Sadly poor sales not helped by the derision in the motoring press killed off that car.

 

The same derision has followed and impacted negatively on the TR7 and TR8. Those of us who appreciate the virtues of the car can't understand why it doesn't readily appear in photoshoots of other TRs. In a recent Top Gear programme homage was paid to the Rover V8 engine and 'all' the cars that the engine featured in were brought together - guess which one was missing from the line up?

 

Sadly Triumph cars is no more and so the TR8 was the last of the genre. Why then aren't the 7s and 8s properly accepted as part of what is now a definitive set of cars? If that can't be appreciated by the enthusiasts themselves then there is little hope. In the context described, it is the continuation of prejudice (especially amongst Triumph enthusiasts) that astounds me.

 

As for the TR7 (V8) / TR8 - those without prejudice have huge grins every time we drive them. I especially love tormenting drivers in their expensive so-called performance cars who look down their noses at you as they prepare to blow you away - except they can't and don't. The car suddenly gets some respect. I'm certain that their surprise is again founded in the misrepresented image of the car.

 

I suspect that my car will sell at a relatively lowly price and some won't even bother looking at it. It's their loss because if they only dipped their toe in the water, they would realise what they were missing. I shall miss my beast when it is sold but TReasure the memories of that gorgeous V8 burble and bark that subdued many as I brutaly zoomed towards the horizon.

 

If the low level of interest in my car within the TR Register is a true indicator of the indifference towards these cars in general then a very sad state of affairs exists and.....

 

Hear endeth the lesson - preaching to the converted no doubt!

 

Kind Regards - RVL.

[Andy Moltu]

Ford tried something similarly bold with the redesign of the Ford Scorpio which was mercilessly derided. Now it seems that other manufacturers are just catching up with the design.

If ever the Ugly Tree fruited the Ford Scorpio was it.

I'm sure it was fine from the inside & did it's job admirably. However it's body was either designed by an american or designed for an american. Just because others follow a design trend doesn't justify it. Evolution is littered with the fossils of genetic dead-ends.

It's like middle aged men with pony tails....better in the dark.

 

As for the value of the 7/8 well that's decided by the market. I've got one & it's not a bad car. (The 7 that is  rather than mine which is definately a shed). I guess it's problem is that it is too modern to command a classic price tag. Classics tend to be the cars we remember from childhood or adolescence. It could be a younger person's classic but kids these days don't know how to work on cars. (Given the popularity of the Corsa it's not too far fetched to assume they know damn all about cars anyway). Who wants to hear a 7 throbbing to rap & assorted hip hop ****? (That would be the ultimate indignity for the 7)

[martynharrison]

Ford tried something similarly bold with the redesign of the Ford Scorpio which was mercilessly derided. Now it seems that other manufacturers are just catching up with the design.

 

If ever the Ugly Tree fruited the Ford Scorpio was it.

Well, I reckon the important thing about a car is how it feels to drive in it. The TR7 drives real well and so forth, as does the Scorpio.

 

And yet it is cheap to buy.

 

In most worlds, this would be a reason to buy, not to avoid, one.

[Guest pimento76]

I would agree that the 7 is a very underated car.

When i bought mine they were dirt cheap and not popular (5 years ago). They still aren't, because "they dont look like a classic car should", does that mean that they still look modern?

These cars are now 25-30 years old and disappearing fast, remember as an investment they are unatractive as restoring them costs more than a sell on price, unlike MGs, earlier TRs etc, so unless you are intent on keeping them its not worth it.

Also there are no heritage shells being made so all restorations mean welding to a limited stock.

I read somewhere that there were aprox 2000 7s taxed in the UK last year - ok there could be many in lockups up and down the country awaiting restoration, or worse, but eventually and this is where I would be positive, demand will outstrip supply and prices will rise. But I didnt buy mine as an investment.

In finishing, i hope to keep my 7 and run it for as long as possible because I love it, these cars were the most modern of the pre engine management system, catalytic converted, fuel injected, computer ran boxes of today, and will still be running long after your expensive z3 types will have gone, because they are basic mechanics that are relatively cheap to sort

[Guest RVL]

Response to andymoltu - With respect Andy the focus (excuse the pun) of my article is not the Scorpio. I am not necessarily a fan of the way the car looks however my point is that current car design should look to move forward. I like old cars and old houses but I don't want to drive an antique everyday or live with gas mantles and a tin bath. Car design should be about moving forward. I don't agree with you about the age of classics - some more-recent classics have emerged and command some very high prices. Martynharrison has twigged. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but depending on fad you can pay as little or as much as you want. The British motoring press have talked rowlocks for too long about cars they know nothing about, usually based on another colleague's article rather than on first-hand experience. Where is the once-great British car industry and who is responsible for that?

[rayjones]

beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, remember the fuss about "Jelly Moulds" when the Ford Sierra first came out. They eventually evolved into quite good looking cars with a few styling changes, and as we all got used to them they started to seem "normal"

I sometimes wave to other classic owners from my seven, rarely get a response, but I suspect often they don't realise it is an old car, as it still looks right today, a design that has stood the test of time in my book!

 

Ray

[Guest RVL]

Response to pimento76 - The rate at which TR7s are disappearing should be concerning. I didn't buy mine as an investment; I would keep mine but it will become another restoration project in a few years unless I sell it to someone who wants to maintain and cherish it. That is my reason for striving to sell via the Register. I am not expecting a King's ransom for the car. I am concerned that selling it on eBay might deliver the car into the hands of a hip-hopper who will crash and burn it. Reluctantly I have to sell and the indifference I have received from within the Register should be 'registered'

[Guest RVL]

Hey Martyn - you and I will probably be driving some very exciting stuff for years to come on a shoe-string. Great!

[Guest RVL]

Sadly Ray - my experience is that the car is recognised and scorned by some other TR drivers, Stag owners and MG owners (what do they know - the TR7 design was nearly signed off as an MG and what would they think then?). I have experienced similarly snobbery when driving an XJS - a quick burst on the loud pedal usually makes a suitable response.

[scotty]

Rvl , got to reply , please dont do your v8 a dis-service , I dont think you are getting indifference from register members re the sale of your car , It is not a case of not wanting it - more a case of most members already have a TR ( or 2 ) and either cant store or afford to spend out on another . I for one would be very interested but Mrs M would have a fit if I came home with another old car .My wife & me attend regularly at car shows with our area group in the 6 (before I took it off the road) my XJ-S & the 7  and have always had a good laugh . ( Have to agree with you about the XJ-S scaring the hell out of folk though - tee hee it goes like stink! especially with a few mods      :: )

[Robin Powell]

I drive both the old and new TRs and they all are great cars in their own way and each offers a different driving experience.

 

If you look in the latest "Practical Classics" there is an article titled "25 Great Classic Buys" and the TR7 is the only TR mentioned in that group which includes cars like Healey 3000s and E Types!

[Guest RVL]

Response to Scotty - I hope that you are right, but if I can't sell it through the Register, I can't be confident of handing the car on to someone who has respect and regard for the car / marque and not just some petrol head who will assign it to the car park in the sky. Which XJS have you got - I've only driven the V12 and the speed that the horizon comes at you is something to experience - once held off a new Ferrari and really upset him! The XJS is in my opinion another unappreciated car. My criticism of it was passenger space (how do you build such a big car with no passenger or luggage space? - fill it with a great engine I guess). I expect that you already know that the DB7 chassis belonged to the XJS. Have you read XJS - A Collector's Guide by Paul Skilleter (ISBN 0-947981-99-3) FANTASTIC. Another great car snubbed by the 'wish I had an E-type brigade' but can't afford one and don't realise that the XJS is a much better drive (I've driven both).

[Guest RVL]

Response to Robin - Can't fault your logic; I was at pains to state that I am not out to knock older TRs - I love driving them too when I get the chance. The TR7 (V8) is the closest to a Healey in terms of handling that I've come across (that is bound to upset somebody). With regards to Practical Classics there is usually always an exception to the rule.

[scotty]

RVL , Mine is the V12 , its the pre HE ( 1975 model ) whitch had the flat heads - good for performance but bad for economy (11 mpg when tickled or 4 when floored ) Adamn good car

[Guest RVL]

Hi Scotty, I drove the HE version and even on that you could still see the fuel gauge move as you floored it. I also mostly achieved single figures. Sounds like yours has a particularly nasty habit of lurching left at filling stations. Get the book if you haven't got it - Paul Skilleter gives a good mix of general, historical and technical information.

[scotty]

Will try to get hold of the book . I read Nigel Thorleys book , in it he gives "all the colour combinations" according to him my car should not exist as the XJS was apparantly never painted in that colour (Lavender Blue) . It was however built in the first 2 weeks of production so decisions had prbably not been made then . Re the fuel stations - yes - I took it to the Selkirk show last summer ( 90 miles each way ) and spent just under £100 on fuel - My wife only spent 42 in her TR7 - she said a few choice words that weekend  

[Guest ron]

Although this is a bit of a well worn subject I thought I may as well add my tuppence worth, I wonder if the TR7s problem is it's too modern and having to compete with cars of a later generation in the market place, there are cars like the early MX5s now available for very little money, and apart from maybe a slightly 'girlie' image it's a hard car to fault, whereas to a lot of younger people the 7 has serious image problems.

If you want bangs for your bucks my older son runs a Fiat Coupe turbo, it makes souped up TR6s and TR7 V8s look slow, it has all the modern conveniences like air con etc and it only cost him about £3000, my only complaint would be it's build quality leaves a lot to be desired, there's a lot of interesting cars on the market like that selling for not a lot of money.

As a matter of interest the same  problems selling MGBGTs come up regularly in the MG forums.

Ron

[Andy Moltu]

Well, I reckon the important thing about a car is how it feels to drive in it. The TR7 drives real well and so forth, as does the Scorpio.

The drive is important but most classics are usually cars we drooled over as children (or as big kids without the money), or perhaps those we look back on nostalgically - the 7 gets the OK rating rather than stunning in the way that the AC Ace or Lotus Elan (original one) is.

 

However there is no way of getting round the Ford Scorpio being a design abomination. If it were a woman & you woke up in bed with it after a night out on the ale you'd bite off your arm (probably both if required) to escape before she woke up. Some cars are ahead of their time (Jelly mould Sierra) but the Scorpio's time doesn't exist in this dimension.

[Guest RVL]

No more on the Scorpio please Andy - I reckon that if it is a woman you've been stood up by one judging your level of hostility towards the car!

 

I still don't agree on the age thing about classics. Ron makes a valid point about Fiat Coupes and the like for cheap money; he's right. You try getting more recent 'classics' such as a decent Lotus Carlton or Ford Escort Cosworth on the cheap! These are not that old. Almost all BMWs and Porsches are stupid money especially the real performance versions. VW VR6s and Rover Vitesse still command a respectable sum. The XJS, Fiat Coupe, TR7 go for peanuts which doesn't bother me. I am only selling my TR7(V8) car because as a two-seater I don't use it enough to justify having it and a car not used just wastes away in my view. Whoever buys my car will get a lot of car for the money. I just hope that they look after it and keep it going. Maybe the TR7 / 8 will never be accepted as a good car, but it is a true TR, part of a definitive collection. Surely someone in the Register (or connected to it by association) can find a good home for it. I'm hoping so.

[Andy Moltu]

What's a classic is a bit random. How you value one classic over another is just as curious.

Why are diamonds more expensive then rubies? Why are Asda jeans £4 and Levis £40?

Why does a Healey 3000 cost more than a TR5? Why is a mini a classic yet the Maxi not? Why is an unmade bed art when Tracey Emin does it & an annoyance when the kids do it?

 

It's down to preference and established trends or perceptions.

Old cars are seen as expensive and are a less popular passtime than in the late 80's & 90's. those who are want to buy a classic have more choice and will pay the least they think they can get for the car they want.

[Guest RVL]

I'm in agreement with your last point Andy - Didn't Tracey Emin do the Scorpio?

[jonlar]

If you look in the latest "Practical Classics" there is an article titled "25 Great Classic Buys" and the TR7 is the only TR mentioned in that group which includes cars like Healey 3000s and E Types!

I have to point out though Robin, in my copy of PC, the E-type and Mercedes 230/280 are on one page, the Healey shares 2 pages with the Stag and Morris Minor, while the TR7 shares a page with the MGB!!

[Andy Moltu]

I read the article - somewhat suprised by some of them. Both of the Triumphs - TR7 & Stag represent a lot of car for the money. The other TRs probably fetch too much to be bargains which should have excluded the Healey from the list too.

[Guest RVL]

So now that we have moved into the magazine arena... has anyone read the article in CLASSICS (June 2004) 'Stag versus TR8 - Power Struggle' How fairly do you think the TR8 was represented in this feature?