trhouse
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Posts posted by trhouse
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I have been at this Doretti game since the 80's. Having been involved in starting Triumph Register of America and providing support for the side screen cars since the early 70s I was distraught at the confusion on Doretti origins when I found my first one. I am happy these days, having been able to put a concise history on the cars beginnings together over the years. Thomas Mia has started a Facebook page in the past year . His cut and past early format captured my original Facebook page (Never active per say) and didn't set well with me. Ken asked to combine our efforts some time back but 40 years of research here is not a project I want to tackle at this time. I have activated a new Facebook page that I share with you here the intent is to just supply some rare bits of history I have uncovered. As for Mia it would be nice for him to divulge his initial interest in starting his page and justify his cut and paste practice coping my and Ken's information.
Tom Householder "In Search of the Swallow"
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The Persplex side screens were an option sort of thing . can be seen in early british magazine reports. I have castings for the perplex mounts and pattern for the perplex.
Tom
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1293 in Connecticut Now in Ohio.
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On 10/2/2020 at 10:07 AM, doretti said:
This picture of an early Doretti, (probably taken in Los Angeles), shows some unusual features that were not incorporated on production vehicles.
Ken
This is the prototype sent to Dorothy in September of 1953
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3 minutes ago, trhouse said:
I own 1293 I found it in Connecticut where it resided fo quite a long time. I initially was sent pics of it in a vacant lot and tried to find an owner. It was picked up by another Doretti owner who just by chance drive by it. It is not in very good shape but the body panels are sound and straight
Tom
1294 is an after production car.
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On 6/17/2020 at 6:00 PM, Dic Doretti said:
Well at 1292 nearly the last Doretti officially built. Ken Yankey's Doretti website shows the last one to be 1294 and there was presumably a 1293 then there was several, possibly as many as 12 post production cars built up from parts, a part finished car taken off the production line after production had ceased and built up for one of the director's daughters (1425!), 2 mark 2s and one development car with elements of both the mark 1 and mark 2. Whatever the chassis number it is still a great looking car and a meticulous restoration.
Cheers Richard
On 6/17/2020 at 6:00 PM, Dic Doretti said:Well at 1292 nearly the last Doretti officially built. Ken Yankey's Doretti website shows the last one to be 1294 and there was presumably a 1293 then there was several, possibly as many as 12 post production cars built up from parts, a part finished car taken off the production line after production had ceased and built up for one of the director's daughters (1425!), 2 mark 2s and one development car with elements of both the mark 1 and mark 2. Whatever the chassis number it is still a great looking car and a meticulous restoration.
Cheers Richard
I own 1293 I found it in Connecticut where it resided fo quite a long time. I initially was sent pics of it in a vacant lot and tried to find an owner. It was picked up by another Doretti owner who just by chance drive by it. It is not in very good shape but the body panels are sound and straight
Tom
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For sale at another site for 44K plus ? Search “doretti 1073”
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I hope everyone has a good time !!!
Topic for discussion ..........
I am currently working on resolving issues around the quality and correctness of wiring harnesses being supplied currently. I have sorted out most of the issues with LHD harnesses which are major. I have some input on RHD harness problems but would like to hear from anyone who might have further input. I note some changes in production, basically the position of the terminal strip at the regulator relay fuse box control panel. The move of the solenoid around chassis 2000. and possibly a change in the routing of the harness to the rear lighting.
Cheers
Tom Householder
Doretti.com
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Frank has been questioned through years on his actual knowledge of production as he focused on other things. This particular quote has turned up a couple of times in other writings. In retrospect I suspect the 220 number here is a typo of some nature. In the past couple of days I widely distributed this letter purposely clipping out the production statement to avoid further reference to it. The first 80-90 cars came to the USA as was the agreement in the initial manufacturing agreements with Dorothy and Aurthur, inclusive of the World Debut. A few cars in this group turn as promotion cars in England. Several other cars come to America via service men and customer overseas purchases and a hand full towards the end of production. Frank's statement here that Aurthur Anderson is primarily responsible for the manufacture of the Doretti in the first place is the significant point here.
Tom
I spoke to Paul Borel in my early years of research he had car 1042 which survives and car 1103. He shipped both cars to Shrilanka . His collective knowledge of known California cars was shared and found in early Register records. 1103 has yet to surface!!!!! his name is typed as Morel by mistake in early lists.
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I'd be happy to pay for the shipping and send you an interesting piece of triumph badging as a tip
Tom Householder
1151 Parkview Dr
Lancaster, Ohio 43130
USA
you can contact me off forum at Doretti.com
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So add the car noted as 1294 to the list of post production cars
Colin Bray owned TG1000 Reg RLL 280, which he sold to Yankee.
Howard Truman car reported as TMB 200 Bolton Nr Wilberforce York
From some old notes of mine .....note prior owner as Cooper?????
MONK
PATH DAVID MANN ( reported as chassis 1294)
COOPER HAD IN MAULDER (N?) BEDFORDSHIRE GARAGE FOR 20 YEARS HAD ACCEPTED AS PAYMENT FOR A BAD DEBDT, CAR WAS BURNT OUT. BODY #12 BUILT IN LANCASHIRE BY AN INDEPENDANT GARAGE
So the known post production list is
Colin Bray Car
Howard Truman car TMB 200
1425 Reg # 584 DHU
TG 1000 Reg # RLL 280
JW-1 223 Reg # 223 DTC
Recent Hencock Devon find Reg # GLB 875C
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" It was red in colour and yes it was the first TR Register Curborough Sprint which I organised in July 1979"
I have dug a lot of stuff up over the years you would think there would be an entrants list results or some newsletter/ newspaper coverage of the
Event
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So the known post production list is
Colin Bray Car
Howard Truman car
1425 Reg # 584 DHU
TG 1000 Reg # RLL 280
JW-1 223 Reg # 223 DTC
Recent Hencock Devon find Reg # GLB 875C
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Jim Williams reported he bought the last assemblance of a car from Swallow and built it up . I am of the opinion the the registered car 1294 is not a production car but could be one of these finished up after the close of production. It does not have a official Commission plate but one crudely hand stamped using the Chassis number I assume that is stamped on it's chassis but could never get confirmation or any info on its history . Cyril Harvey's Early list of cars notes two Monkspath cars for no other reason I assume than no known Chassis numbers so reported as such by owners. Some of this was sorted out but is not on top of my head at this time. Colin Bray and his dad were one and Howard Truman was the other if someone can sort these out? There is a newsletter from a continent club that has a Doretti for sale and an article on the history noting production numbering ran from 1001 to 1293 with gaps at the end (Someone was privy to some info we never saw). Frank Rainbow states production started at 1000 which I profess was the car Black wrecked this is supported by Ken Richardson and Helen Rainbow in my conversations with them on the subject. Various press pieces on the wreck makes statements of it being a 1st production car and some also refer to it as a prototype. The wreck wearing Swallow Plates when wrecked was returned to Swallow and some issues with the insurance around the mishap turn up in Standard Triumph files. We deduce after the fact that the Engine TS 1 E was in this car TS 4 E was in Rainbow's prototype and TS 6 E was in Dorothy's car . TS 1 E survives with the works race car that was at Silverstone in mid 54. Cyril Harvey and I suspected that parts from the "1000" wreck were used on production cars we had that were along the same time in the production mid 54, Mine being filister head bolts assembling the side curtains which was out of sorts with production chrome pan heads, and looked like were evident in the 1000 wreck photos and an ignition key code "UN 1" on the original key.
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From your website
This appears to be written from the article I remember and am still looking for. I am not sure of what is stated here as Franks comments is verbatumn from his Original Doretti Story..
Early in 1955, John Churchley, (the owner of Monkspath Garage), heard that Swallow Coachbuilding had stopped production of the Doretti and wanted to dispose of its surplus parts, he was keen to see what was available. He went to the factory, ostensibly with the intention of buying twenty handbrakes and sets of cables for the cars that he was producing at the time. However when he arrived the store-man welcomed him with open arms and offered him the entire contents of the stores, including all the body panels, windscreens and so on. Churchley protested that he couldn't possibly afford everything but they were quite desperate to get rid of them and offered to sell and deliver the whole lot to Solihull for £100. Hardly able to believe his good luck he accepted the offer with great alacrity.
The following day three pantechnicons arrived at the garage with the entire contents of the stores, including dozens of panels and windscreens. Apparently Swallow had been so pleased to find somebody to take everything that they had sent the whole lot. Monkspath exported the Doretti parts all over the world for years. Indeed, so great was the demand for windscreen glass that Churchley was eventually getting them made in batches by Triplex.
John Churchley has specifically stated that all the cars had gone from the factory by the time he got there and that he never built or sold any Doretti sports cars. However there was at least one Kenmar special built on a Swallow Doretti chassis by Monkspath. Frank Rainbow himself has written that after production stopped "about twelve of the Dorettis not completed were disposed of as kits to enthusiasts". It would therefore appear that the confusion has arisen about these cars. The so-called Monkspath Doretti cars have obviously never existed
Tom
Doretti.com
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I think there is an old letter either in your files Ken or sourced from another site that is written by the Monkspath owner that states they never built cars but can't recall the specifics for sure. I'll try to access it but with all the site changes, not all the info through the years turns up .
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Obviously the grill has been bashed and the air duct has been partially cut out. The four bolts holding on the grille surround should be a source of recall if anyone restored this car. Still nothing turning up here
Tom
Doretti.com
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I have been tracking these cars since the late 70s. Loads of pics classifieds history here but this is new to me. Fill me in on the event and date, when you had it, where came from and went. color history and any special bits OD and the like. I'll check my timeline and will see if I can come up with something. In the mean time I will keep looking here.
Tom
Doretti.com
Obviously a post 1970 photo
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I know this car if you want to contact me direct at Doretti.com
tom
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The body bolts you think are 1/4 28 are not they are an English tread of some sort..... You can retap your captured nuts to 1/4-28 and use SAE bolts probably ok with some tjread sealer best check depending on the Qualty of bolts you get. or replace all with 1/4-28
Tom
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Classic and Sports Car august 2009 sports a letter from an employee of Wellbeck Motors that acquired a 4 Place Doretti for them at the close of the Doretti Production. I believe this is something other than one of the MK II cars. There does exist a MK I car with an extended floor length and shortened rear shelf that appears to have been originally black. I am researching this further, In the mean time does anyone have a rear shelf that finishes a couple of inches behind the rear wheel wells?
tom
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That's a great idea, Tom. I have just started thinking about the kit I will need to assemble in order to remake the floor panels. It's going to be enough work that I might as well make a spare set or two of floor panels and offer them around!
I was in Essen, Germany, last week for Techno Classica, billed as the world's biggest classic car get-together. It was something like a million square feet of vintage cars, from the pedestrian to the oddball to the truly astounding. Lots of bread-and-butter classics were mixed in-- it was fun to see what attention was attracted by such local mass-produced-but-lovably-goofy machines as the Borgward Isabella coupe. And it was interesting to see some very grand prewar machinery in the metal, such as imposing examples of the Horch marque.
Most interesting to me, though, were the low-production cars that appealed to the sophisticated dollar (or pound, or deutschmark, or CHF) back in their day, and which still don't get the same attention as well-known brands. Several examples of Swiss coachbuilder Graber's art were on display, including a very elegant Talbot-Lago and, my personal favorite, an absolutely perfect Alvis coupe. (You can see the latter in a nice spread in this month's Thoroughbred & Classic.) There were several OSCAs, and the only Cisitalia I have seen outside of the Museum of Modern Art in NYC. VW sponsored an extensive display that included a lovely Dannenhauer & Stauss roadster, which proves there is beauty to be found even in the humble Beetle.
Undoubtedly the star of the show for me was Doretti #1037. It has to be one of the most original Dorettis, with only 40,000 miles on the clock and only minimal recommissioning work since its discovery in the back of a garage a few years ago. It's for sale by a Dutch dealer, and I'm going to try to see if we can get it back to the US (despite the dealer's lackadaisical approach to selling). But the real value for me was to be able to climb all over it to photograph all the original elements that my own car is missing-- original pattern carpet, upholstery, etc. It was an invaluable opportunity to take notes for my own restoration.
Speaking of which, I've got #1092 down to the frame and mechanical bits now. Note for future restorers: though I did manage to get the front tub off by myself, it really is a two-person job! Also, Swallow used small, rather sloppy spacers made from unfinished aluminum to align the tubs where they contacted the frame, and it's worth keeping track of these as you disassemble. I won't reuse them, though, at least not without sanding them down and painting them-- there was a lot of corrosion. Now I need to remove the engine/trans, front and rear suspension, and steering, and it's off to the blaster's to have the frame taken down to the metal and refinished.
I was surprised at how quickly I could get the car stripped-- they really are quite simple-- and I'm looking forward to starting the rebuild. Of course, this is where things start to get expensive...
Regards,
Vittorio
I've seen four floor pan variations in the cars the holes are not always consistent. Stock piling stock I did some years back down to a couple of sets left. The pattern seems to standardize after the first 90 cars or so. Things get a little different at the very end trying to get a bit more leg room and mods heading for the MKII. Panelcraft quality and consistency was excellent on the inner panels as well the aluminum, Only a few minor mods through out the production on the steel. Given the hand built bodies, wings, boots and bonnets sometimes don't interchange from one car to another without some fitting and redrilling of holes. The body spacers are simple notched out rectangles stacked to fine tune the door alignment.
tom
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I have owned Chassis 1215 for some years now. The car is a RHD and has some competition history here in the USA. I can trace it's history back to California in the 60s, when some parts were taken off of it to use on a competition TR possibly a supercharger?? The original color was light blue with blue interior. At one time it was also white. The the seats ares till the original material, The dash is distinctive and might be recognized by someone who knew the car before it was shipped over here. You will note that the vacuum gauge has been replaced and the hole fitted with a washer to mount the narrower gauge. Given the quality of the early picture it's hard to tell if in fact the vacuum gauge changed position or not. Thus the vacuum gauge (Smiths) may have been with the car from the onset. The 10 ld? pressure gauge seems to be a generic industrial item fitted with the Jaeger/Smiths trim ring. Also fited with single seat size roll bar don't know when installed or removed, It did have a 3 over 3 registration plate mounting on the boot lid at one time but It was not on the car when I bought it. Prior to the middle to late 60s there was another owner who bought the car from the person who imported it. I do have documentation of a person named Cooper who advertized a Light Blue RHD car for sale on the east coast (USA) in 1957. I cannot confirm that it was the same car. Any recollections
would be great!!
tom
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I actually made a tool to form the jack hole in the pans. I trued the edge of a Churchill Hub puller and made a tapped cup to fit the thread on the hub puller and simply pulled the offset in! I wheeled the offsets in around the edges.
tom
"In Search of the Swallow" Concise Swallow Doretti History !!!!
in Italia, Swallow Doretti, Peerless & Warwick
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Yankey has the url and we are discussing how it gets presented