Mark Richardson
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Posts posted by Mark Richardson
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Hi Stuart - thanks for practical advice. Is solid axle. Will check dimensions, the box mounts and invest in toffee hammer.
Cheers, Mark
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Hi all - just to report finally succeeded in 'unseizing' engine.
Helpful advice and confirmation that pistons and liners now just scrap metal, I went at it with a little more vigour.
Hammer and soft wood had no effect from below, nor did lump hammer and assorted chisels from above. Finally managed it using the lump hammer on a long crow bar from below which, without too much effort, drove the pistons and liners out from below.
Have yet to try to salvage con rods, but pleased to see crankshaft turned freely once released from pistons, so hopefully (touchwood), engine is not going to blow my budget.
I will be cleaning up and checking over engine (using workshop manual as guide) over next few weeks, and am sure will be looking for more advice then.
Meanwhile, have also started to de-rust the chassis. It all appears solid, but noted the top and sides of the profiles slightly pitted whereas bottom/underside of profile nice and smooth - I assume pitting is from rust, but wondered if possibly a higher finish steel was used on the underside? possibly somebody with more experience of this could comment? I don't think the steel is compromised as pitting is light - just enough to make cleaning a pain. Also got half a dozen small dents in the profiles none more than a couple of inches across and none more than about and eight of an inch deep - I hoping I can ignore these and don't need to reinforce these parts of chassis - again any comments welcome.
Thanks again for all the help
Mark
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That's great, thanks Rich
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Hi Rich and BFG.
- I can just get a ring spanner on it, but its so deep into engine casing there was no room to turn the spanner and even if managed to turn it there would be no room for bolt to come out.
You have both, however confirmed what I needed to know - ie that pistons and liners are scrap, and crankshaft won't get damaged if I go at it hard.
Will give it another go tomorrow or Wednesday and think I should be able to salvage conrods without too much trouble.
I spotted Piston and Liner deal at TR Shop thanks Rich, but assumed if necessary I would replace with 86mm. I think I understand that together with other improvements a bigger bore can improve performance but is there any other reason apart from bigger is better why you advise 87mm rather than 86mm? I'm happy to go with the advise , just wondering....
As ever, many thanks, will let you know how I get on with the removal in due course.
Cheers, Mark
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PLEASE CAN I HAVE SOME MORE ADVICEE ON UNSEIZNG MY ENGINE ???
Having now got my engine out it definitely appears that it is the pistons which are seized. I had hoped I would be able to unbolt the connecting rods so that I could remove the crankshaft and so get at the stuck pistons. Of course having now got the engine out I realise I can't get to one of the bolts on each of two of the connecting rods. I'm considering three options.....
1. Keep heating, soaking, working at pistons and liners for a few more months as it will be a fair while before I'm getting anywhere near putting engine back in. OR
2. Accept that I was going to need new pistons and probably liners, etc, anyway, so get brave and cut through tops of pistons and through con-rod gudgeons, freeing con rods from pistons, allowing me to hopefully get crankshaft out and then get at what's left of the pistons and liners. OR
3. keep trying number 1 until I start to need to get the engine sorted.
Number 3 obviously sounds the more sensible, but I wonder if I am just putting off inevitable.
All other advice as to what to do would be most welcome - I have so far avoided doing anything to aggressive to pistons am as worried about damaging crank.
In anticipation, many thanks
Mark
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Hi Jase - budget wasn't £15k to start! ... and part of why I'm doing it was for the very experience of doing it - hopefully the satisfaction and achievement at the end (although that's looking a long way off).
Also for the £15K I should get a fully restored car, whereas when I was looking, none of the cars I saw at under £20k gave me the confidence that they would require only a little work - I might end up spending well in excess of the £20k to get such a car to the condition I hope to get my US import up to. I may be living in clouds cuckoo land, but its a nice place to live - and as I said the project was as much about the experience as the investment (and to be honest the car was something of an impulse buy rather than a result of serious consideration).
I'm sure I'll think much longer and harder next time....
(I'm not too worried about the LHD/RHD, gives me even more of a reason cross the channel, and I can always change it over if I get sick of it. I had actually been planning to change it to RHD and even managed to acquire a RHD metal dash back plate and dash before thinking I had enough on my plate and would leave it LHD. I know it would be easier to change now than later whilst the car is stripped, but was just trying to reduce the workload. I've never been good at making decisions so may end up changing my mind again on this - particularly if I get any feedback from other UK drivers of LHD cars.
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Thanks Pete - guess its all about getting the right perspective...
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Cheers Peter
Hopefully Pistons out soon which will be another major step forward.
Rod - thanks for constructive motivational advice, most of which I was already doing. I think current issue is that now car is mostly stripped immenseness of project has hit as there are so many jobs I could now get on with - shell, chassis, suspension, engine. Hopefully my plan to focus on chassis and shell this summer will work, and hopefully working at same time on engine, etc, will break up the monotony of the body work and enable me to see something achieved each week.
Hadn't seen WreckRescue before but will be watching more - certainly more relevant than Classic Car Rescue where a small team of professionals throw an apparently unlimited budget at a car and turn it around in a couple of weeks.
Will update you as things progress.
Cheers, Mark
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Hi Peter, thanks for quick reply.
I hadn't been considering re-bored liners (unless turns out to be necessary) just assumed would get new - I think there is a bit of difference in piston price if re-bored. Will read up about it and give it a think. - don't you sometimes wish there was only one clear answer and all advice was the same!
Good to hear studs OK, and will plan on light skim, valve guides and seats at machine shop.
Cheers, Mark
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Hi all - thought I ought to post a bit of an update on my project...….
Failure of ordered crane to arrive, and struggles to remove dog bolt, (and possible realisation of immensity of project taken on), as well as arrival on Covid and impact of life generally have all delayed work on my TR4A. However time, and benefits of some conversations with other members (thanks Rich) has allowed me to think through where I am going with it, and get together a clear plan.
Original objective was, in buying and rebuilding this car, to allow me to learn something new, to free me from the drain of modern car ownership, to achieve something (a biggy), and hopefully end up with a driveable classic I could be proud of. yet I was always going to be limited by budget, condition of car bought, logistics (working on Mother's driveway as cannot find garage space), and my total lack of knowledge and experience.
So plan is now to get car on road for next summer rather than this, after a full nuts and bolts and bare metal restoration, which, I now realise having worked over the car, and extensively read up on it and restorations in general, she both needs and deserves.
Whilst the engine is seized (and a worry) much of the general condition is good, and whilst every little item needs extensive cleaning, servicing, and some restoring, very little would appear to need replacement or major restoration.
To keep the project, budget, and my learning curve as tight as possible, now intend to keep the car as original as possible leaving options I had been considering such as O/D and RHD conversion alone - I can always revisit them once car successfully restored if budget permits.
Currently believe I can keep the total final cost down to somewhere between £15,000 and £20,000 depending on the unexpected. This is based on the old time/money/ quality triangle - the more time I can put into it, the more I can do myself, the less it will cost. This is exemplified by the paint job. Quality of result appears to be an outcome of time and work put into preparation, priming, sanding,, more sanding and with cellulose paints, polishing, rather than the skill of applying paint. Whilst a professional paint job will cost thousands, and even then the long term quality of it limited by the unknown amount and quality of preparation the professionals actually do, if I do it myself I can put as much work into getting the quality right as I wish, and keep the cost down to not much more than a thousand (primers, paint, wax, and consumables at around £750, second hand compressor and new guns £350-400). (Found out that non ISO epoxy primers now available so feeling much more comfortable about doing DIY paint job without killing myself).
So as to progress ….
Whilst waiting on crane totally stripped car and managed to clean and service most parts, including such things as defunct starter (a few days spent paraffining greased up Bendex, replacing brushes, cleaning commutator, and generally cleaning off motor surprisingly gave me starter which seems to work good as new).
When (newly ordered) crane finally arrived last month managed to lift shell off chassis, and was pleasantly surprised to find a chassis and suspension with only apparently superficial rust on it. Hope to finish stripping rest of suspension (front end) of chassis this weekend (just waiting on a ball joint separator and spring compressor tool), and will then try to clean up chassis using mix of elbow grease and DIY blaster I picked up. Result should be at least good enough to tell me if I need to send it off for professional blasting or not. I will post pictures in a few weeks once done and see what you all think. Am removing all suspension parts to home where I can slowly clean, inspect and assess each part at my leisure.
Whilst keen to get engine out and unseized (seizure possibly largely due to extensive rust on pistons and liners) and into it to get some idea of extend of work needed and cost of rebuilding, I held off even after crane arrived as struggling massively to get dog bolt out. Clearly if I could not get it out whist engine on chassis there was no way I would get it out if engine standing free. Weeks and weeks of lubricating, use of breaker bar, and electric 450nm impact wrench proved no use. Finally last week had a major result with second hand air impact wrench (Blue Point 750+nm airgun) and second hand compressor (Clarke Raider 100l, 14,4cfm) recently acquired (air compressor acquired with forward view of using for any blasting and for paint work).
Following success of releasing dog bolt lifted and separated engine and gearbox, but engine currently just sitting on new engine stand legs as was not confident where and how to mount it properly on stand - having now reviewed BFG's posts will be getting this mounted over next week or two so I can strip it down both for inspection, and to get it to a weight where I can remove it to my home for rebuild at my leisure.
Intention is to focus on getting Chassis, suspension, and bodywork stripped, cleaned, rebuild, restored and painted over the next three summer months, and then start to put it all back together in the autumn, and go to work on the trim and other cosmetics over the winter. Hopefully the engine, a gearbox and diff' service will come together throughout the summer over evenings when I am not working on chassis and shell. Am already starting to get a few clues as to work needed - the inside of the gearbox clutch housing was thick with oil so assume replacing the rear crankshaft oil seal will be just a small part of necessary work (This forum is so excellent - have already found posts regarding this which tell me where I can get the appropriate seal which does not require grinding of the crankshaft!).
Just to mention not planning to use blaster on body panels as may be too destructive and little effort I have so far made indicates current paint comes off fairly easily with stripper. Will need to be doing some panel beating on front valance (damaged in delivery of car whilst winching on and off of delivery vehicles!), rear boot and valance (looks like minor damage from a shunt), and floor (looks like damage from jacking of vehicle in wrong place). Also replacement of boot floor, rear deck forward sections, and sills which all have extensive rust - hoping to manage this myself spot welding using a MIG welder and online tutorials - the welding course I was going to put myself on was obviously another non event because of COVID. Some of the body panels need work on the "return edges" (the edges through which they are bolted on to the main shell) - at the moment I am unsure whether I should try and build these edges back up with weld, or use the flexible car panel edge strips I have seen advertised.
I hope to give another update in a few weeks - hopefully a lot briefer than this, and am sure by then will be asking many more questions.
For now, for anyone still reading, some questions or request for advice re head...…..
Valve Seats seem OK but will check when new valves arrive (all valves were rusted and worn so will be replaced, but plan to get local machine shop to replace liners with hardened liners for lead free. However the picture attached shows condition of part of underside of head after cleaning. There is some pitting which seems to be where gasket would lie. Does this need skimming??? Also should I be trying to clean coolant channels myself or do I need to send this out to be done?? …. and is there anything else I need to do to head???
Also there is some wear on manifold bolts (see pic), apart from the one bolt I sheared off in removing manifold, do I need to replace these??
Finally, should I be trying to clean coolant channels myself or do I need to send this out to be done?? …. and is there anything else I need to do to head???
As ever all help, advise and suggestions welcome, and thanks for the interest.
Mark
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Also thanks Pete (stillP) for tips.
Mark
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Thanks Pete - looks like rad seal as no separation, etc. more good news.
Bits is my radiator water were just because bowl was dirty!
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Forgot to say - waiting on magnet - will check sump oil when it arrives.
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Hi, thanks for all replies.
I guess I was worries because had expected not to see holes "on the "con rod side of the cap's bolts", just assumed should be a closed casting - great if its as it should be, but you may be able to make out in the second photo the edge of the hole is damaged and a part of the casing is missing (sorry - not sure of proper terminology). Again great if all is as it should be, I'll keep spraying penetrating oil, and keep rocking car in gear (top from now on) and see what happens.
Glad to hear no great concerns over oil on engine casing, and rust in ports. Might be radiator seal in rad' water, I've no experience on which to judge - just looked and felt like oil.
It seems to be the little things which take so long - like removing jammed instrument knobs from mounting over transmission tunnel, and trying to get bottom coolant pipe off radiator - struggled to access screw on jubilee clip attaching it to radiator, then rounded screw head off, only getting radiator out eventually by taking coolant pipe of engine and wriggling radiator out with coolant pipe still attached. Still, am getting big dose of satisfaction every time I manage to get something apart, am slowly learning my way around the engine.
Anyway, feeling better already - your responses very reassuring
Will plod on, thanks
Mark
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Thanks for further suggestions re unseizing.
Yes, have put cheap tyres on and did try rocking in gear (although not in top) - absolutely no movement.
Wood, angle iron on flywheel, all sound good, however ………
whilst reviewing photo's I took yesterday I spotted what I think is likely to be cause of seizure, and think its going to be safer to strip down without any more effort at trying to unseize it as there's likely to be some shrapnel floating around or jammed somewhere in there. You'll see what I mean if you look at left side of following two pictures, and centre bottom of third.
Also below I have uploaded photo's of oily water which came out of bottom of radiator when I removed it, side of engine casing showing oil on rear corner where head meets main casing, square ports on right side of engine which show rust inside, and state of cylinders and connecting rods. Can just see line of rust between piston and lining
Any further comments most welcome.
In meantime have managed to get radiator off, and access dog bolt by removing covering plates, remove generator, strip seats, carpets, radio mounting over transmission tunnel, and started to remove transmission tunnel (to get at starter motor bolts and to separate gearbox from engine). - Everything seems to take so long !!!! - Hope to finish removing transmission tunnel, strip left side of engine, separate engine and gearbox, and lift engine this coming weekend.
Thanks for continuing support and interest
Mark
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Thanks Mick & John
Will do.
Engine hopefully out next week when crane arrived.
Will follow BFG's strip down process and report back as and when.
Cheers
Mark
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Hope so Roger - watch this space.
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Hi Mick - fast response thanks.
I was thinking more in terms of using it to turn crank to "unseize" engine - turning forward rather than backward to break whatever is seizing it. Any good?
Mark
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Have sprayed up into cylinders / pistons with penetrating oil a couple of times but still no movement trying to turn fan by hand. Also struggled to get oil into central two cylinders - too much gear in the way.
Took another look around engine and took some more (possibly better) photo's - will upload tomorrow when can get camera linked to computer.
Results of this "forensic" look over engine revealed following:
Rust in square ports on manifold side of engine, but (disregarding loose rust assumed to have dropped off when removing manifold) none in round ports).
Signs of oil on outside of engine casing where head meets main casing at (UK) drivers side rear corner.
Oil in water which poured out of bottom of radiator when I finally managed to remove radiator and bottom coolant pipe.
Rust on moving parts in engine seems superficial (ie could probably clean off fairly easily once parts accessed) and appears principally limited to connecting rods, and top of semicircular mouldings on crankshaft.
Spots of rust on inside of engine casing again looks superficial and easy to clean off if accessed.
Cylinders heavily furred, but could see spraying penetrating oil into cylinders cleared much of this immediately, however, as said, struggled to get oil into, and see into central two cylinders.
Am slowly preparing for removal of engine (which now seems to be a must do) and after struggling got radiator, generator, and fan off today. Hope to get rest off tomorrow in preparation for lift of engine when crane arrives (Use of mate's HIAB proved to be impossible, but found a 1 1/2 tonne crane with 5' reach second hand on E-bay for £95 incl delivery).
QUESTION - ? Is it too ambitious / dangerous to try using an impact wrench to turn dog bolt and crank to unseize it all ??? I am assuming too dangerous, but thought it might be owrth asking! ( - In preparation for loosening dog bolt I managed to pick up a 450 torque "MOSS" impact wrench on E-bay for a little under £45, and a 1 1/8 GEODORE high impact socket from "topratedtools.co.uk" for £13.)
Will update with photo's tomorrow, in the meantime any thoughts on use of impact wrench most welcome.
thanks, Mark
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Hi Pete, and thanks for your further interesting and informative post.
Your forensic approach seems sensible for diagnosing issues as well as for me to get to know the engine and I have taken it on board. Have retained sludge in sump so will examine it as you have suggested. Also oxidation on pistons. I can only work on engines at weekends so will be back on it in a few days).
Your description of how the fan is attached is bang on. When I was trying to get fan off before couldn't get on bolt heads for the tabs - didn't realise I could just flatten these out.
I was also struggling to remove radiator to get to front of fan, having trouble removing bottom two bolts, but now have workshop manual so hope I will find out how to do this therein, will check tonight.
As I can only get on car and engine at weekends am planning to work on ancillary parts evenings during the week - stripping them down and rebuilding as necessary. as indicated mileage is about 60,000 I presume this is a sensible move. I have carb's on desk now and plan to strip them over next day or two, then post photo's as necessary for advice on whether I need service or rebuild kits, and any other replacement parts. Workshop manual seems to provide enough information as to how to take them apart. Does this seem sensible?
As ever, appreciate the time you and others have taken to post, its making an awesome project seem achievable.
Regards, Mark
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Hi Roy, I'm North Wales. Have not contacted local group yet, plunged straight into web, but will do soon.
Will have a look at big end caps, but looks like it will need a rebuild anyway so making plans to get engine out.
Hi Simon. Car came from North East US, but could have arrived there from anywhere in US. Have no history on car. Haven't seen any real rust on underside of car but not really taken a good look yet. Will get back underneath it with a better camera over next week. May have more to tell then.
Thanks for interest
Mark
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Hi James
A few years ago, that would have been my approach - 200 kg doesn't sound that much, but am now short a few sturdy lads, bad back, frozen shoulder, and a bit long in the tooth for all that. I'd figured £175 for a new crane, use it to get engine out and (one day hopefully) put it back in, sell crane on for a £100, not much more expensive than the few rounds of drinks I no doubt would have to pay those sturdy lads. Also, if my son's anything to go by, those lads are anything but sturdy, the heaviest thing they seem to lift is their mobile phones. But you've got me thinking - I've got a mate with access to a delivery truck with a crane on the back - I'll see if he'll do me a favour.
Thanks for making me think it through, you may have just saved me £175.
Mark
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Thanks for clear directions Mick
Having now taken of carb's and manifold, etc, and read through BFG's posts, idea of taking engine out is not looking quite as scary. Sorting problems and putting it back together a little more so but I now feel comfortable that the help and advice is all out there. Probably take me a couple of weeks to get the engine out and start the stripping.
Seen cranes seem reasonably priced at less than £200 and seems more sensible to purchase rather than hire at the rate I have seen - £60 a time!. Also see engine stands at £60-70 which sound like a good investment.
I will probably separate gearbox partly to make lifting easier, but am also thinking in terms of upgrading to an O/D gearbox, so would seem sensible to separate gearbox and engine now.
Gearbox upgrade will probably depend upon costs of rebuilding engine, I can make a decision when engine sorted and I know how much money I have left.
Wondered if you have any thoughts on upgrading gearboxes.
I'll report back on progress in couple of weeks.
Thanks again
Mark
Whoops.
Advice welcome - US TR4A project just arrived - engine seized
in TR4/4A Forum
Posted
Thanks BigBogan - will get it checked over professionally - can you recommend anyone?
Mark