[Insurance write of Cats and damage.]

Hi All

Not really a TR thing, but it could be so do we have any insurance industry professionals on here?

I don’t have an issue but there does seem to be an insurance industry problem I don’t understand.

Now in my “other” car life I like messing around with old Rovers N MG’s. I say old but say 1990 to 2005 ish.

I was perusing the CoPart web site the other day, as you do, and came across this early 90’s 214 SEi. The notes said starts and drives and it had minimal looking damage, nice spec and its quite rare (84 taxed).

But the gobsmacking part is someone has decided WAAYYY to bad to repair.

So bad it’s a Cat B write off.

Now the definition of a Cat B write off is where the structural damage to the vehicle’s chassis and structural frame is deemed so severe that the are never permitted to return to the road.

I mean really? I suppose it could be a one off oddity, but there are 2 other Rover 25’s with similarly limited damage that are also Cat B’s.

Now I know they might be pointless to repair economically but that’s not what cat B means as the definition says it should be so bad structurally is can’t be safely repaired.

And how many of out TR's come under the catagory of an uneconomic restoration.

Oh by the way there were more pic's on CoPart and this was the only damage shown.

Any body with any idea what this is all about?

Cheers  Keith

 

[New battery...]

On 4/5/2024 at 6:18 PM, Paul J said:

Halfords are not a good supplier in my opinion and I will never use them again. I have now given up as it was causing me unnecessary stress. The battery was bought at a premium price with a 3 year warranty which Halfords will not honour.

Hi All

My point was not a recomendation of Halfords or any supplier in particular just a point that if we do buy everything online to save a couple of quid one day that will be the only choice.

Less of an issue with specific parts that fit specific cars but not much fun if you are buying stuff you want to touch or feel before deciding what to buy.

Cheers  Keith

[New battery...]

On 1/25/2024 at 12:44 PM, Hawk said:

Always use Halfords - they price match, I can usually walk out with what I want and they have a physical location that I can take 'duff' batteries back to.  

We all need to be aware of this.

Yes you can often save a few quid online but come 10 years or so after more and more buy online and people like Halfords don’t exist or just have a few stores in the big cities things might get difficult if you need something now or want to touch and feel before buying.

Si I always try to buy stuff from someone with a physical shop, if I can, so just got a microwave from Curry’s and they price-matched Amazon.

Then had to get a new vacuum cleaner an elderly relative she wanted to try different ones and you can’t do that at Amazon or AO. So popped down to Currys (again) to try stuff out and choose one. Again they matched AO. Ok it was three quid more but on £150 ish not to bad, not even a pint!! (or half on the south east)

Cheers  Keith

[Ian Tyrrell on TR6]

On 3/26/2024 at 3:49 PM, mrehke said:

Neil Ferguson near to Stafford is the man to adjust the MU - he worked for Lucas PI Department and has the Lucas Test Bench equipment for setting the MU and other components...he is also a good bloke!

Neil is indeed the Pi man and i'm lucky being about half hour away

As said he worked as a Lucas engineer for 20 years or so before it all went under and purchased lots of the test equpment they used.

He refurbs all of the Pi gear and supplies many of the parts suppliers and as others have said is very helpful, though he can occasionaly be hard to get hold of, so patience.

No connection other than he refurbed all my Pi gear to a great standard and it was running well until my fuel tank rust issue blocked the filter and caused havock.

Cheers  Keith

 

[Tyres back to original size and pattern]

2 hours ago, Steve-B said:

Given quite good tyres were recommended in another thread here are available for £140-160, why would you spend £239.28/tyre for the XAS? Are they really that good?

Thats a real good question.

Now they are the only thing that keeps a car on the road but when we shop for tyres for our modern daily drivers how many of us specify say Michelin Pilot Sport 4's?

For my daily car the Michelins are £160, my Toyo Proxes are about £95 ish but you can get Nankangs for £50 odd (all same size)

Personally i never buy cheapo tyres (hence the Toyo's) but i am on a budget and CN36's at over £1100 for a set is a little steep for me, esp when they will prob not wear out but will need replacing after they crack with age. So i went for Vredstein T-Tracs. Again there were cheaper available but.....

And oh i'm on 165/80 R15's as thats kind of what the car was designed around not modern 195 or 205's

But each to their own and so you pays your money and makes your choice.

Cheers Keith

 

 

[Fuel Tank Rust]

Hi All

Thanks for the replies.

I’ve thought about a number of things.

First one is it just rust? As can be seen the rust in pic 1 tank looks very different from pic3, but maybe thats the way the water content of ethanol petrol causes rust in a part full tank.

If it is simply rust a quality ally tank would certainly be an immediate cure and as many have said theirs has lasted years so pretty simple solution.

But I’m aware that the tank, bolted in place is part of the rear structure of the car and some say this can lead to cracking. Now that might be just cheapo Chinese tanks but that some retailers won’t even sell me an alloy tank does indicate they think there is an issue. Now not being an engineer or TR professional I’ve no real idea which is correct.

I’ve heard the name Allicool (probably on here) can can’t find it when search WWW. Did they go bust? got a dim and distant memory they might have done but could be wrong.

I’ve looked at petrol ethanol treatments, Millers do one called Tank Safe, which claims similar things to the Lucas one. But not sure how they work, do they reduce the amount of moisture absorbed by the ethanol or just stop the rust forming and does that apply to the top of the tank where the air gap is and where condensation may occur with E5 petrol, again I’ve no real idea. So if re-acid strip my tank or buy a new steel tank will the additives stop either rusting in the air space?

So decisions decisions. As I said it would be interesting to how other steel tanks are doing, has anyone got any pics of perfectly working steel tanks with no issues.

Would be great to here from a TR specialist or pro restorer to get their recommendations.

Cheers   Keith

[Fuel Tank Rust]

Hi All

Still struggling with my fuel tank rust or contamination issue. (See Pics)

It’s a std original TR6 Pi fuel tank and its now in pretty poor condition internally due either to rust or a resin type contamination or a combination of the two, the fuel filter keeps getting blocked, which means the car breaks down regularly. So it needs to be rectified or the tank replaced.

So a bit of history, the tank was rusty internally when I got the car (a non runner) so I put loads of nuts, bolts and water in and sloshed its about to remove some of the worst rust. Once empty and dry I used 5L of 45% concentration Phosphoric acid to neutralise any remaining surface rust. 

To be honest it looked great after that, no rust and I’d read that using phosphoric acid left a phosphate layer that resisted further rusting to a degree, so good to go I thought.

But it’s not worked out quite that way with the tank being unusable after about 18mts/ 2 years or so. Unfortunately we are now in an era of E5/E10 petrol and due to the limited use the car gets and the ability of E5/E10 to absorb moisture a mild steel tank will rust inside.

But the inside of the tank now looks very different to the original rusty pics, so is it rust or something else? Some kind of resin gunge from **** petrol?

Externally the tank is mint, it was sprayed in 2 pack gloss black but internally poor, sure I can acid it again but if it simply rusts again I’ll have to clean it again and I don’t want to have to do that every couple of years.

Is there a process to stop that, what is it and is there a company that can do it professionally?

I’m not keen on the various DIY pour in sealants as I’ve read about them failing and I don’t want to end up with a tank full of peeled off sealant. But such a failure could be one in a 100 or 1000, I’ve no idea.

I’ve looked at new tanks, alloy and steel, and the response from various suppliers has ranged from its uncoated mild steel and will rust to we don’t sell alloy ones as we get them returned due to cracking.

Sense would say tanks should be made from galvanised steel (assuming the zinc is not affected by petrol, don’t think so) or stainless but it seems they are not.

So how are everybody else’s steel tanks doing in this era of E5 (or E10 if no E5 about)?

It seems that as time goes by with only E5 (or E10) available the problem can only get worse unless there is a specific problem with my tank or there is a longer term solution.   

 So is there a solution, a process or a company out there that can sort my tank or protect a new one if I have to buy one.

Cheers  Keith

[Question re: Clear Hooters wiper switch]

Hi All

My switch is original and seems to work but over the years to symbol has worn off.

Not the end of the world has obvs i know what the switches do but it would be good if it looked nicer.

Seems overkill to buy new switches so just a long shot does anyone produce water slide transfers?

If i could put one on then lacquer over it to protect it.

Cheers  Keith

 

 

 

 

[uprated cv joints]

4 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

If you go on the CDD website this is how the hubs are described there

Yep tried to go to the CCD website yesterday but Firefox went nuts and categorised it as a dodgy website and said not to visit, so I didn’t.

Its really about trying to understand the risk factors. If the issue is the original hubs have been abused or had poor maintenance techniques used (ie splitting incorrectly) and a new hub helps simply by new rather than 50 years old or is it mainly the design which is intolerant of any subsequent maintenance or is simply too old to be safe and a new hub of a different design is the only way to go.

After all £800 would cover getting the Rover 25 brakes done and through another MOT and that get used daily

Cheers  Keith

[uprated cv joints]

On 11/5/2023 at 12:35 AM, Motorsport Mickey said:

I think this subject is done to death Keith but here's a review of some of the reports and failures

Hi all,

Good info, but it does highlight a quandary.

My car was a one owner original condition (rusty wreck) barn find prior to me getting it, with 69k on the clock which I’ve got no reason to disbelieve that as apart from the mega rot, trim and mouse issues mechanically the engine and gearbox needed minimal work, though both were stripped just in case and everything else has been stripped down and rebuilt and renewed as needed.

But the hubs seemed fine as do the splines (no clonks but my experience is minimal) but has it had new rear bearings and the hubs been split before I got it? who knows.

But of course the hubs are now over 50 years old so age??

Now I know it’s a case of its my car therefore its my decision, which is 100% correct but spending the thick end of £2k on new CV driveshafts the basis of what might happen in a small number of cases with little definitive evidence on the cause either way is kind of difficult to justify.

Clearly if bearings were on their way out I probably wouldn’t split the hub or buy reconditions ones, which I’m sure means new bearings and a repaint at best.

So the question of what to do and that leads to a couple of questions.

Are the new hubs that are available the same design as the original and thus would suffer from the same issues eventually. Though with the comments about triumph 2000’s failing at 4 or 5 years and 70k won’t really affect me (or most of us ) as 70k with represents about 20 years and I won’t be driving by then.

Are the uprated replacement hubs on that same original design or different and if they are of the original design what makes them uprated?

Similar with the whole CV driveshafts, is the hub element the same or different in its design?

If the new hubs are different what in the design makes them fail safe?

After all the differences could be fairly crucial and with the cost of for “new” hubs ranging from £330 to £895 the prices seem very different indeed.

Cheers  Keith

[uprated cv joints]

Hi All

I’ve read different bits and pieces about CV joints and hubs but I’m not sure I’m 100% clear on the safety risks of the old version.

Now correct me if I’m wrong in my thoughts but I know the splines will wear over time and you end up getting a clunk from the rear and eventually if left they will lock up and stop moving  in and out with suspension movement which is not ideal.

But the big issue seems to be that the hubs can separate if (and when?) the stub axle cracks and eventually breaks meaning the wheel is held on by errr nothing, which generally speaking is not good.

So the big question is why does this happen?

Is it just simply an age thing or is it (more likely?) that damage occurred when the hub assembly was split to facilitate bearing replacement?

If the later is the case is there a specific way of splitting the hub that negates or at least lessens the risk of that happening and how long do the bearings last?

My driveshafts and bearings seem to be ok, from the very limited amount of miles its driven since it became road worthy, but I’ve no idea what has or hasn’t been replaced prior to my getting it.

So if bearings get all grumbly can the hub be safely split and bearings replaced?

“If” the big safety risk is the stub axle breaking does replacing the hub with a good quality new one (rather than refurb) get rid of this risk?

Cheers  Keith

[TR6 standard wheels verses Wire wheels]

On 9/21/2023 at 7:12 AM, CharlieBubbles said:

+1 Beauty is as ever in the eye of the beholder, but for me wires on the 4/5 look perfect, while the ‘washing machine drums’ on the 6 are brilliantly consistent with the rest of Karmann’s work. Arguably the best refresh ever done in a car, particularly given the non existent budget.

Yep completely with you on that one.

Wires suit the styling of 4/5 much better, with the headlight treatment, boot and chrome indicator repeaters.

But with the more straight-lined blocky look of the 6 its steels for me.

Though a set of colour coded minilites would look great.

Not sure whether to go Sapphire Blue or metalic grey centres, with silver or even diamond cut rims of course.

Cheers   Keith

[Tyre Advice]

On 9/17/2023 at 5:23 PM, CalT said:

Thanks for the replies and food for thought (I am now probably more undecided than before).

John / Gareth, thank you for clearing up the tubed / tubeless issue. 

I had of course wanted to maintain the cars originality and stick with the 165/80’s hence the T-track’s, although it is good to hear of people being happy with larger lower profile tyres.

The speed rating is not something I was aware of but have had a good read of a previous thread linked here: 

 which seems like a can of worms! 

There is a real limit of correctly rated 165/80 tyres which I guess is why many people have opted for different sizes.

The Vredestein T-track 2’s currently priced at £64 a corner are not of the required spec but the Sprint Classics currently priced at £163 a corner are! They cost more than what I just put on daily driver!! 

I note that some people have spoken to their insurers with regards to putting lower speed rates tyres on their cars but again that seems to divide opinion.

Thanks again for the info so far! 
Cal 

Hi All

I had the same issue a few years ago.

I wanted to stick to 165/80 15 and looking round i noted that it was either Dunlop Sprint Classics (or similar) at around £200 a corner or Vredstien T Trac2 or Conti CT22, both speed rated as T (118mph) at around £60 ish. (gone up a bit now).

Looked into all of the speed issues and checked with my insurer about fitting TTrac's or CT22's and they were fine with them. Since moved to the TR insurer and they are also fine with that.

I went with the Vredstiens as they have a better wet grip rating than the Conti.

They seem absolutely fine but I don’t drive that fast or do that many miles so no doubt it will be age and cracks that put a pay to them rather than wear.

Cheers   Keith

 

 

 

 

[TR6 standard wheels verses Wire wheels]

33 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Wires need a good deal of looking after.

They are also not quite round.  Transferring from wires to Alloys makes you realise what a round wheel is.

 

They do look good tho'

 

Roger

Completley agree on the roundness thing

But can't agree on the looks thing.

But of course its 100% a case of personal preference and individual choice.

I like chrome (well stainless) trim rings despite the fact that they are not correct for my 72 Pi.

But each to their own.

Cheers    Keith

 

[Fuel Tank woes]

Hi All

Many thanks for all the feedback as many thoughs are better than one.

As Waldi and Keith1948 have said I do need to identify the root cause of the contamination and I’d kind of assumed rust from the general look of things but as they didn’t dissolve in acid over 24+ hours probably not.

All hoses are relatively new but I will remove them all and check as best I can.

From the pics I took with the endoscope camera the black stuff appears to be stuck rather than loose bits but it is hard to tell in the depths of a dark fitted tank..

I think my next move is to remove the tank to get a better look and make it easier to get at the rest of the hoses and see what condition they are in and take it from there.

In one way it would be good if ity were hose breakdown as that would be relatively simple to solve.

But its good to have many comments as though I’d thought of hose/ethanol problems I’d not give the return line any thought.

The interesting things is that despite the breakdowns the TR did get its longest run out and its proved a good shakedown as it has highlighted a few things I need to look at and improve on which was the whole idea.

 

Cheers  Keith

[Fuel Tank woes]

10 hours ago, stuart said:

Second picture looks like rust. either way its a failure of the coating. I would ditch the tank as you`ll never get it clean enough to rely on now.

Stuart.

Stuart, yep there is def some rust in there but the majority seems like something’s else, especially as the bits haven't dissolved in my acid yet.

So has anyone ideas on what that is?

If the tank is past it I will get another but I was concerned about rust in a new mild steel tank, but you mention the coating having failed, are they made from a coated sheet? I’d assumed simply pressed mild steel which would rust fairly quickly, as steel sheet does.

Have you had any problems in new(ish) tanks?

TR tanks have been around decades so did pre Ethanol steel petrol tanks have less of a rust issue? I know almost all cars now have plastic tanks so moisture in ethanol is not a rust issue.

I’d considered ally but the look, stiffness issue and cost put me off a bit, but as Podone Andy says further problems will happen at the worst times so I’d prefer a long term solution.

Cheers Keith

[Fuel Tank woes]

Hi Guy’s

Many thanks for the replies.

As Rich said the first photo of the tank was just prior to installation taken mid 2019, with the installation done late 19, so it was a clean as I could make it at that point.

The car has only just been made usable but the first lot of petrol has been in for ages to get the engine running and do an initial shakedown run of maybe 10 miles.

After finishing a few things off recently I again took it out for a short trip and all was fine. So as the car seemed roadworthy I put about 3 galls, say 2 weeks ago to take it out for a longer shakedown run, planned to be 50 or 60 miles but in that time it stopped 3 times and it took some messing and leaving overnight to get it home.

So its only covered about 75 to 100 miles since first being driven over 6-18 months.

As the pump (Lucas) was tested and was spot on it was suggested the problem was between the tank and the pump hence stripping the filter down and finding all of the junk, which I assume is restricting the fuel flow enough to cause the pressure to fall. I also drained the tank and more bits came out.

I assumed it was rust until Keith1948 suggested resin. So I’ve put some of the bits in the Phosphoric acid and at the moment its doing nothing just sitting there not fizzing.

My first pic of the inside of the tank was taken with the tank out and its really difficult to see inside with it in the car so I got one of those endoscope cameras, only a cheapo USB one that plugs into a laptop so the images are not great.

But it does not look that rusty but something else is in the tank. I also had a look in the fuel hose but the camera won’t go far in and it looks ok, with just a few minor cracks.

So is that the resin and what is the cause and solution?

Cheers   Keith

[Fuel Tank woes]

Hi All

I’ve restored my car and one of the jobs a few years ago was to sort the fuel tank as it was internally pretty rusty, so restore or buy new.

Well I looked into it and though I’d give a clean-up a try and see how it went.

So I used both nuts and bolts and gravel with some water in the tank to get rid of the worst of the rust scale. That leaves lots of surface rust so I used 5litres of 45% Phosphoric Acid to get rid of that and the results seemed great (SeePic) nice clean steel. The bonus is (should have been) that phosphoric acid leaves the surface covered in a phosphate which resists rusting again, supposedly!!

But a few years later with the car more or less finished its been driven a few times (few miles) but its stopped twice just like its run out of fuel (it hasn’t) so something else it causing fuel starvation symptoms.

Had all of the Pi tested and checked and its all spot on so I look into my fuel tank as best as I could and saw, what looks like rust!!! It looks weird, though its wet with petrol. I removed the filter (CAV type) and its full of rust particles so I’m thinking that is the problem.

So questions assuming it is the problem,

Is my old tank junk now and do I simply need to replace it?

If I de-rust it again is there a better way, tho phosphoric acid seemed to leave a really clean surface.

Whats causing the rust? The water content of E5 petrol or just condensation and how can it be kept at bay?

If I replace the tank with a new steel one are they treated or if just mild steel won’t they just rust the same as my current tank?

 

Cheers   Keith

 

[ULEZ - not the rant you might be expecting!]

On 8/6/2023 at 8:35 PM, Ian Vincent said:

What makes me smile are the constant references in the media to ULEZ being a green policy. It isn’t, it’s the opposite of green.  After 29th August I will stop taking my Euro 5 diesel car to London and take my wife’s 3 litre petrol car.  ULEZ compliant but emits twice as much CO2. 

Rgds Ian

Think you've missed the point of ULEZ its NOT about CO2 and global warming its about local emissions of NOx and Particulates which studies indicate are linked to increased respiratory disease esp in built up areas with high traffic volumes err like London.

So your petrol 3.0 is fine but your old diesel emitting ten times the the amount of NOx and more particulates is not.

Moving away from high CO2 activity is a global problem as what the USA and China does will affect world climate, the emissions of NOx and particulates are much more localised hence restricting the use of the most polluting vehicles in built up areas.

The message is simple don’t drive an old diesel in London, It can’t be too much of a hardship for most people on here with TR classics in the garage as even my old £500 Rover 25 daily driver is compliant.

 Keith

[Engine test start]

Hi All

There is plenty of oil in there but it is very very black.

I decided to take the oil filter off as i thought well its been in the car for probably 30 years plus and who knows if its desintigrated by now.

And some of the oil seemed well a bit gloopy, so im tending towards doing an oil change then trying to start it.

It might be pointless as the engine could be shot and rattle like a bag of nails but hey ho.

Cheers   Keith

[Engine test start]

Hi All

Bit of a second opinion or advice required.

Bought yet another old car, a 1968 BMC with an A series engine and gearbox in sump and no its not a Mini.

Its been of the road since the mid 1990’s and not run for at least 20 years.

I need to pull the engine to repair the bodywork, but I’d hate to then put the engine back in and find its junk.

So the idea is to start the engine to see what I’ve got and what it sounds like. Then I might get a better Idea of what I need to do to it. Is this a worthwhile exercise?

It turns over by hand so not seized and I’ve had a look in the bore using an endoscope camera and it looks ok, well as far as I can tell.

I’ve got new some ign parts but the big question is should I change the oil and filter just for the test run which might only be 2 to 5 minutes.

I’m tending towards trying to get it running and changing it all but can think of loads of other parts to spend £50 on if running the engine and changing the oil is a pointless exercise.

 

Cheers  Keith  

 

[Hood Installation Advice]

20 hours ago, andyb633 said:

i use a prym snap faster tool available on ebay for about £13 , it gives great results as in your 2nd photo

Hi, Andy, i'd seen these sort of things on ebay but often with the plastic coloured snaps as a kit so didn't think it was up to the job, so its good to have a recomendation.

1 hour ago, Andy Moltu said:

It may be a trick of the light (or me being thic) but isn't the top photo of one of the fasteners that should be rivetd onto the body?

They are but i was practicing and using both types so as not to run out of either. It was bending the post over neatly that i was struggling with.

 

Cheers All  Keith

[Hood Installation Advice]

Hi All

Bit of advice please.

Getting round to fitting my new hood soon, well hopefully.

Got a rough idea how to do it and found a couple of useful guides so hopefully I can work all that lot out.

But the one thing that is looking difficult is installing the snap fasteners. Theoretically is simple enough but the results aren’t as I’d like, (Pic1) of my efforts and a proper job!!(Pic3)

As you can see although the snap is attached and does not move it looks a bit of a mess and maybe not as secure as I’d like. But it may be perfectly functional.

I’ve got the cheapo tools off Ebay at the moment (pic2), I know there is a proper professional tool sold by Sailrite in the US but at $234 its kind of pricey for a one off job. They do a similar (but seemingly better) version of the hammer tool but with a locating collar, but I can’t find it here.

So what I’m looking to produce is a similar kind of result to pic3, which was done by the hammer method.

So for the DIY installers out there has anyone got better results and what tool did you use?

Cheers  Keith

[Original style dashboard]

Gareth and All

With these entirely cosmetic things the decision over what it looks like is a 100% personal thing.

So whatever you do on your car is correct, even polished carbon fibre or body colour (lol)

When refurbing my (Original, as afr as i can tell) dash I decided to stay with what I think is reasonably close to the original look.

Luckily my dash veneer was I quite good nick and just needed a few repairs.

The lacquer as normal was not so needed to be completely stripped. To replace it I went with multiple coats (5+) of satin with a light key between each.

I’m happy with the result and think it suits the car well.

Cheers   Keith

[Trailing arm versus pothole]

1 hour ago, rcreweread said:

I wonder if the TA would have broken if a traditional lever arm was being used?

Cheers Rich

 

 

Hi All

I'm def no expert engineer but logic would tell me there should be way less chance.

So assuming the bump stops don't come into play before the strut bottoms out there would be massive (depending on pot hole size) stresses transmitted vertically to a fixed point, namely the top of the new strut bracket, so pretty strong. Well the ones I fitted seemed to be.

So a locked strut attached to a V strong bracket and a massive road shock leads the weak point failing, i.e. the alloy trailing arm shock mount.

With lever arms there are many areas of flex, both vertically and horizontally, the lever of the lever arm is horizontal so (I assume) wouldn’t transmit the forced so directly, the drop links, though vertical in themselves do not attach to a fixed and strong point and can move both vertically and horizontally.

With all of this err flex in the system I wouldn’t expect this type of failure to be common with lever arms, but as I said I’m no expert so I’m sure someone will confirm it has happened.

Oh I went back to levers after seeing the bridge failure pics on this post.                

https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/66376-rear-shock-conversion-what-not-to-use/

I think it pays to be careful about mods to 50 year old cars that may put new stresses on components they were never designed to cope with and aren’t as strong as they once were. It may well mean strengthening other areas rather than just whacking the new thing straight on the car.

Not saying don’t mod your car just think about how any mod might affect other areas and sort any potential probs before they happen.

Cheers  Keith