1966 TR4a IRS - restoration and questions !

[Adrienc921]

Dear fellow TR enthusiasts, hello from the French Alps,

A quick word to introduce my TR4: it's a TR4a IRS with overdrive from 1966 that I found in a barn 2 years ago at the end of the Paris CDG runway!
She only had 3 owners from being delivered new in France, the last one started to dismantle it a bit before stopping the project for a lack of time and stored it where I found her.
The engine was in pieces but she was mostly complete with a few spare parts and nearly all her documents since the 80's.
The car was rust-free with good floors, so I figured out it was a perfect base to do a light restoration, considering my limited skills in the matter.
I've attached a few pictures with a before and now 

On the other side of the wrench, it's me: I've always had a thing for 60's British cars having started at 18yo by redoing an MK2 Spitfire which led me to an MK2 GT6 and then an Austin Healey 3000 MK3.

Since I got the TR4 I proceeded to:
- put the engine back together
- fit a new starter, alternator (it was already converted but badly), radiator, water pump, fuel pump
- redo the clutch's master and slave
- redo the carburators
- redo the front/rear suspension: bushings, shock absorber for the front
- redo the steering rack
- redo all the brakes: front/rear + master cylinder + brake line
- upgraded the dashboard, the old one was cooked + the dashtop
- changed the hood and fixed the frame that was broken
... and a few other bits and pieces

I'm nearly at the end of this first phase and I'm planning on getting the 'controle technique', the French equivalent of MOT, during my next holidays to make it road-legal.

At this stage, I wanted your opinion on two subjects:

1/ I've got a lot of difficulties making the wipers work:
The car was fitted with an MGB wiper motor and a 105° wheel but it did not work
I managed to find an original TR4 wiper, at the price of gold, and a 120° wheel which is supposed to be the correct one if I check on the workshop manual.
But it's not working ... when I don't attach the wiper's cable the motor works perfectly and when I try to move the wiper using the cable they are perfectly free to move.
So it has to do with either the motor's fitting (but I think I got it correct using the mounting plate and existing bolt holes, also the cable comes at the exact place to be fitted on the wiper motor finger.) or the wheel.

Before trying to butcher my very precious new motor and fit another wheel I wanted your opinion.
Do you think it could be something else than the wheel?

2/ It seems that I'm hearing a noise in the engine
As explained above I put together the parts missing from the engine: essentially the top part (like the head cover). The engine starts perfectly, gets to temperature, and doesn't overheat (at the moment at least). The idling is too high and the engine is running a bit rich, I have to fix that.
I don't know if I'm being a bit paranoid but I seem to hear a knocking when the engine is running.
I've made a small video, and I very much would like your opinion on the subject:

Thanks a lot for your help and for this forum to exist, it has helped me a lot in the past year!

Adrien

[rcreweread]

Adrien  - welcome to the forum and well done on getting this far - great work!

Re your wiper motor issue, I'm not an electrical expert but a few pointers I've noticed  - you say you bought a TR4 motor - these are single speed and correctly have a 120 degree cog - I can't see enough of your wiper to be able to see whether it is a single speed motor, but a TR4A should have a two speed motor, and these are expensive and rare - TR4 ones not so.

You can easily tell a 2 speed motor as all the electrical wires (3 of them)come out of the body of the motor in a black plastic sleeve with bullet connectors on the end - single speed ones have lucar terminals on the back  to which you attach the relevant cables. The wiring of these motors is counter intuitive as they work by the switching on and off the earthing to the motor which is otherwise permanently live - some one will be along in a minute to tell you the correct connections/wiring for the switching etc

One other thing I noticed from your photo was that there was no copper connector attached to the spindle of the cog - this is what connects to the underneath of the domed bit of the cover which is the self parking mechanism - I'm not sure if this would stop the whole motor from working but it wouldn't self park

I suspect you may have wired it up wrong if it is a single speed as the wiper switch in the car should be a two speed wiper switch - you need to know what you are doing to wire this up and that isn't me but Roger Hogarth on this forum will hopefully be along in a minute to put you straight.

Re the engine, it sounds a bit "tappety"  and like the exhaust is blowing  - are the manifolds all fitting snugly to the head and the nuts nice and tight  - are you using an original cast iron manifold - if so , check it isn't cracked

Show us a few more photos of the wiper motor as it will help ID it

Cheers Rich C-R

[RobH]

Welcome Adrien.

As Rich says, your motor seem so be lacking the self-park contact.  The red wire is there and I can see the brass contact pad in the lid, but the wiper isn't present.  It should look like this: 

That won't prevent the motor from working but it will just stop dead when you switch it off, instead of moving to the park position. 

You should have power to the green wire all the time the ignition is switched on.  The single speed motor is turned on by earthing the green/black wire. 

The two-speed motor is a bit more complicated. Power is the same but it is turned on in 'fast' speed by earthing just the brown/green wire.  To get 'slow' speed both the brown/green and red/green wires must be earthed.  It should never be run with just the red/green wire earthed as that will burn out a resistance inside the motor. 

I couldn't hear knocking in video but there does seem to be a lot of tappet noise. 

 

 

 

Edited January 28 by RobH

[Adrienc921]

Hi both,

Thanks a lot for your answers.

The wiper motor is a 2 speed with 3 cables, I think I've wired it correctly because when the wipers are not attached to it, it works well (or it seem).
When I attach the wiper cable they move a bit then the motor stops (and I'm not even using the wiper switch at this point), if the wheel is correct, maybe the motor doesn't get enough power ? I tested it with the cap for the self park, I just removed it for the picture. I'll take a few more pictures when I'll be back near the car.

For the engine sound you're perfectly right it's more of a tappet noise, my english is quite limited I didn't know the word
Any hint and what you would check first? 

For the exhaust, the manifolds are originals and not cracked but I'll check again if it's tight, I might have a hole further down the line as well 
 

Thanks a lot for your help!

[andyhall]

Hi Adrien,

Can you move the wipers freely by pulling and pushing the cable by hand? can sometimes be resistance in the wiper boxes?

Andy

[RobH]

If I understand correctly what you said above Adrien, when you attach the wipers to the motor it runs a bit and then stops even though it is not switched on.  

That can only happen if the body of the motor has no ground connection to chassis.  Attaching the wiper cable grounds it and allows it to run to the self-park position when it will stop. 

If the wiper mechanism is free to move, it would be an idea to check the wiring again  just in case.  If it is doing as described it may be that the switch isn't wired correctly so that the motor will seem to run on its own but has too little power to drive a load. 

Tappet noise is cured by adjustment of the valve clearances.  

[Adrienc921]

8 hours ago, andyhall said:

Hi Adrien,

Can you move the wipers freely by pulling and pushing the cable by hand? can sometimes be resistance in the wiper boxes?

Andy

Hi Andy, yes I can move them without an issue by moving the cable by hand. 
And the wiper engine seems to work well by itself. It's only when the two are together that it 'locks' 

Thank you !

[Adrienc921]

7 hours ago, RobH said:

If I understand correctly what you said above Adrien, when you attach the wipers to the motor it runs a bit and then stops even though it is not switched on.  

That can only happen if the body of the motor has no ground connection to chassis.  Attaching the wiper cable grounds it and allows it to run to the self-park position when it will stop. 

If the wiper mechanism is free to move, it would be an idea to check the wiring again  just in case.  If it is doing as described it may be that the switch isn't wired correctly so that the motor will seem to run on its own but has too little power to drive a load. 

Tappet noise is cured by adjustment of the valve clearances.  

Thanks a lot Rob, I'll check the adjustment of the valve clearances.

For the wiper motor it doesn't really stops, it's just that it seems that the motor doesn't have the force to move the wipers. 
Because if i remove the attachment 'finger' the motor starts again without issue.
 

[Ralph Whitaker]

15 hours ago, Adrienc921 said:

Thanks a lot Rob, I'll check the adjustment of the valve clearances.

For the wiper motor it doesn't really stops, it's just that it seems that the motor doesn't have the force to move the wipers. 
Because if i remove the attachment 'finger' the motor starts again without issue.
 

You mention that the motor runs and then stops without operating the dashboard switch. Are you sure you are setting the auto park correctly. When the motor runs and then just stops is this because it has reached the auto stop position?

Problem is you need to start from basics, check the wiring is correct at the switch for a 2 speed motor, after all someone else has already been messing when they put the MGB motor on, and didn`t succeed in getting that working anyway, so you don`t know whats been messed with.

Ralph

Edited January 31 by Ralph Whitaker