John L Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 Sorry not a TR problem, if I may, I have been repairing an engine that's not had a good anti corrosion antifreeze, and stood for some time, is there a safe chemical I could use to flush thru and give the aluminium inside a good clean, the block is cast? It will be refilled with a good IAT antifreeze, some seem to be green in colour and some a darker green, is there a preference, or make that would be the best? John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve-B Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 My ex-Caterham had an aluminium K-Series in it. I had a head gasket fail early on which required attention then it was how to get all the gunk out. Best approach was to get Comma Coolant and mix with distilled water per instructions. Fill engine, run up to temperature, cool, drain twice and repeat. No gunk left after 2nd time so this could be an approach to try. You can find it here:https://www.wilcodirect.co.uk/product/coolant-antifreeze/anti-freeze-xstream-g30-red-5-litre-co-xsr5l/CO-XSR5L I hope that helps! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 Phosphoric acid will clean Aluminium. However it is now banned from general sale in the UK Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted January 25 Report Share Posted January 25 23 hours ago, RogerH said: Phosphoric acid will clean Aluminium. However it is now banned from general sale in the UK Roger Isn`t brick cleaner similar, and available from B&Q. Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted January 25 Report Share Posted January 25 I think brick cleaner is a weak hydrochloric acid solution Ralph. Aluminium reacts with hydrochloric and dissolves, releasing hydrogen gas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 25 Report Share Posted January 25 Hi Ralph, don't know about 'brick cleaner - see Rob's post above) but Dairy milk stone remover is phosphoric based. It could be bought from Country/Farmers stores did stock it but there has been a ban introduced so not sure what is happening there. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted January 25 Report Share Posted January 25 (edited) Phosphoric acid banned from sale? See CocaCola: https://www.coca-cola.com/gb/en/brands/coca-cola-original-taste#accordion-1435a4d269-item-d34ba7c09c Click "Nutrition" (SIC!) and see: Ingredients: Carbonated Water, Sugar, Colour (Caramel E150d), Acid (Phosphoric Acid), Natural Flavourings, Caffeine Flavouring. (My emphasis) Phosphoric acid is a "Permitted Food Additive" coded as E (Europe) 338, a classification still valid in the UK. It is still widely available in the UK, as Milkstone Remover, Rust Remover and as just Phosphoric acid: https://www.google.co.uk/search?sca_esv=f27a76d716e86b8b&sxsrf=AHTn8zqW6MWq6GQOQU6ujbQ5e1ok6JCedQ:1737802899349&q=Phosphoric+acid&tbm=shop&source=lnms&fbs=ABzOT_AqAj1UoYQh8kglFXNyluWOqa5Byjz8gYDQhQlAIuFG_RXyZCeU2CGLlRRY-8c8ThOompI0geecy3YALCAf5ZhHV6qua5jl204OPWnAiPvz98ok7zT4f_-_bXFp1Lft1Ggp2UDbk0G52StrQlo7imUThSZXQsrQKoxwfXI2iHETNAnAZ3ooR3d40u45zarzf42CVp7JD37YMH2ZMoYH2qRAf3Jw9Q&ved=1t:200715&ictx=111 Concentrated phosphoric acid (>30%) has been banned as a potential bomb ingredient: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-measures-targeting-bomb-making-materials-come-into-force BUT! I seriously doubt if phosphoric acid would be a useful engine cleaner. Its use as a "Rust remover" relies on the fact that while almost all other metal phosphates are soluble in water, iron phosphate is almost insoluble! Thus when applied to a rusty iron surface, it acquires the familiar black colour as the iron oxide is converted to phosphate, in situ. It happens that iron phosphate shares this almost insolubility with Aluminium phosphate! So the acid won't remove any large deposits of aluminium oxide but will leave them as the phosphate, or more likely, as piles of aluminium oxide with a thin coating of the phosphate. Moreover, if there are deposits of iron oxide in the water jacket from exposure to an iron cylinder head, the same inability to wash them out will apply! John Edited January 25 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted January 25 Report Share Posted January 25 (edited) Phosphoric acid cannot now be sold in concentrations above 30% John, unless the buyer has an Explosives Precursors and Poisons (EPP) license issued by the Home Office. That includes milkstone remover and all the other names it goes under. It may be that the makers will water it down so that it is under the limit for general sale but of course that means it won't work so well . https://www.monarchchemicals.co.uk/Information/News-Events/977-/New-Regulations-on-the-Sale-of-Chemicals-What-You-Need-to-Know Edited January 25 by RobH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted January 25 Report Share Posted January 25 Thank you, Rob! I too noted this above. 30% acid is perfectly good as a rust converter (NOT remover!) I also note that online sellers demand to see the buyers "EPP" licence (Explosives Precursors and Poisons) Perhaps some enterprising business will undertake to dilute such product and resell them to restorers! John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve-B Posted January 25 Report Share Posted January 25 with all due respect, cleaning out aliminium engines can be a challenge, to get all the sludge out. many K-series owners have been down this path and the procedure i mentioned is a safe way to do this...but do as you wish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 23 hours ago, RobH said: I think brick cleaner is a weak hydrochloric acid solution Ralph. Aluminium reacts with hydrochloric and dissolves, releasing hydrogen gas. Definately don`t want to be immersing your ally engine in that then. Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 (edited) 22 hours ago, RobH said: ...Phosphoric acid cannot now be sold in concentrations above 30% John, unless the buyer has an Explosives Precursors and Poisons (EPP) license... Surely, if it is possible to dilute 30% acid to make it weaker, then all you need to do is boil it up to evaporate the water and then you can be back to 30% (or stronger if you feel like it.) A bit of a hassle, but if you need a concentrated version to do illegal things then a small amount of extra work is not going to bother you. In which case the ban is a waste of time. (or have I got it wrong?) Charlie Edited January 26 by Charlie D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 Agreed Charlie but when has common sense ever been used when drawing up legislation ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 In an Ali engine block the OP is not removing rust - Aluminium Oxide etc. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve-B Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 (edited) Exactly Roger which I posted a tried & true way to remove muck easily and reliably then the thread has gone sideways into harsh chemicals and acid. I’m not an engine builder but I’ve been around enough K-series hence there’s an easy way, or an expensive way. Caveat Emptor Edited January 26 by Steve-B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.