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Retrofitting alternator to TR4A


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6 hours ago, Tr4aJim said:

Thanks Pete. Personally I’ve never seen a “one wire” alternator. However I found these instructions at the site you provided. The picture shows that it also will accept a 2 wire plug, so apparently that’s an option too. It’s around $150 depending on the supplier.
 

The fact that their site lists “racing” applications first, makes me think that’s exactly what the unit was designed for. So I’m a bit leery of that. However the spec sheet says it’s a “Nippondenso” unit.

I did hear back from TR Enterprises and they still do offer alternators: kits that also include brackets and narrow pulley (£192), and just the alternator (£142).
 

Frankly I’m willing to pay more to a company that is familiar with TR applications (and I can get support), than one where they’ve probably never heard of a TR, and I need to try and “make it work”.

cheers

Jim

 

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Be VERY careful to buy an original DENSO manufactured alternator, these have ND embossed on the rear heat shield. I’ve been using these for a long time and the real thing are very reliable and easy to mount. MOSS sell all the bits inc spacers and the adjusting bracket, so you just need a bolt, a couple of nuts and washers to shim it into the right alignment - and you will need to do that.

My experience is that the life of the non OE DENSO alternators is very short and the diode sets are poorly made. They fail and cause a battery overcharge, which is pretty hairy. I would suggest that you avoid these, even if they are cheaper.

It’s also worth noting that some of the higher power units have a small three pin oval plug. You can swap this out I’d you want the spade type ends or buy a connector to suit. Bits are all on eBay.

Regards

Tony 
 

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50 minutes ago, TR4Tony VC said:

Be VERY careful to buy an original DENSO manufactured alternator, these have ND embossed on the rear heat shield. I’ve been using these for a long time and the real thing are very reliable and easy to mount. MOSS sell all the bits inc spacers and the adjusting bracket, so you just need a bolt, a couple of nuts and washers to shim it into the right alignment - and you will need to do that.

My experience is that the life of the non OE DENSO alternators is very short and the diode sets are poorly made. They fail and cause a battery overcharge, which is pretty hairy. I would suggest that you avoid these, even if they are cheaper.

It’s also worth noting that some of the higher power units have a small three pin oval plug. You can swap this out I’d you want the spade type ends or buy a connector to suit. Bits are all on eBay.

Regards

Tony 
 

1. Below, OE DENSO with embossing. 2. Not OE no embossing. 3. 3 pin ‘Toyota’ … up to 120 amp. 4. 3 pin connector. Or 5. Replacement diode set with spade connector set 

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I did an alternator conversion on a mates TR4A in a layby just outside the Nurgburgring circuit. He had one of those fake dynamo/alertnators fitted which had blown up, and none of us was carrying a spare dynamo, but someone had a scabby used Lucas 18ACR.

It was a struggle but with some bodge tape, zip ties, a pair of molegrips, and a random strip of metal found in the gutter it got done.

He got all the way back to Blighty like that, and was still driving round London a month later with this Heath Robinson conversion.

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1 hour ago, multipletriumphsinner said:

I did an alternator conversion on a mates TR4A in a layby just outside the Nurgburgring circuit. He had one of those fake dynamo/alertnators fitted which had blown up, and none of us was carrying a spare dynamo, but someone had a scabby used Lucas 18ACR.

It was a struggle but with some bodge tape, zip ties, a pair of molegrips, and a random strip of metal found in the gutter it got done.

He got all the way back to Blighty like that, and was still driving round London a month later with this Heath Robinson conversion.

Ahh TR ing as we all remember it.  

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same thing, had to be pushed off the ferry on the way to Le Mans as I hadn't noticed the ignition light was all the way down to Portsmouth and you can imagine the gallery of onlookers on a crossing like that!

kept boosting the battery in laybys until it got really dark so we went into "close formation" sandwiched between a Lotus Elise and Land Rover defender with a roof tent on the top, boy that was a challenge at silly speeds. on the last boost just outside Le Mans we rummaged around and gaffa taped two torches to the wings. Passed three sets of Gendarmes and they just looked surprise (read; disgust!) guess they didn't want the paperwork. Got to Tet Rouge at 3am and bought all Team 710ers a good few beers before trying and failing to put a tent up to go to sleep....

 

DSC00076 (2020_01_18 13_04_21 UTC).JPG

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2 hours ago, Nigel C said:

same thing, had to be pushed off the ferry on the way to Le Mans as I hadn't noticed the ignition light was all the way down to Portsmouth and you can imagine the gallery of onlookers on a crossing like that!

kept boosting the battery in laybys until it got really dark so we went into "close formation" sandwiched between a Lotus Elise and Land Rover defender with a roof tent on the top, boy that was a challenge at silly speeds. on the last boost just outside Le Mans we rummaged around and gaffa taped two torches to the wings. Passed three sets of Gendarmes and they just looked surprise (read; disgust!) guess they didn't want the paperwork. Got to Tet Rouge at 3am and bought all Team 710ers a good few beers before trying and failing to put a tent up to g

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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  • 2 weeks later...

I bought an alternator and mounting kit from Bastuck Co Gmbh which is a Nippon Denso 40A version (310COMP) which has 2 spade terminals and the 6mm stub for the battery supply. The mounting kit is one machined shaft which fits to the original mounting points. Their instructions say to connect the ign warning light and the ign switch wire to the spade terminals as shown on picture. They also show how to bridge the regulator, although it's not very clear even on the proper document, but I will probably remove it altogether. The Moss conversion instructions shows joining the ign wire, the battery feed and the alternator together. Can anybody advise which way it should be done?

In addition, I also have another brown/blue wire on Terminal A1 of the regulator which isn't shown in the Triumph Workshop manual. Does anyone know what this is for?

Regulator - A1.jpg

Pages from TR4A alternator mod instructions.pdf Bastuck inst.pdf

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Fig 10 in the 1st PDF is correct.  You can only retain the old regulator box for the connections if you remove all of it's contents, & then modify it.
A search on this forum should come up with chapter & verse about how to do this, it has come up many times before.

Bob

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Complication.  

The Moss figure 10 is not correct for all Denso types.  Some Densos need an ignition-switched feed as described in the Bastuk instructions.  I guess the alternator they supply does need that connection else they would not have included that.

(Their mod to the control box is confusing and the diagram is awful though) 

I think you should follow Moss Fig 10 but add an extra connection from the ignition switched supply to the second spade, as Bastuk says. 

 

 

 

Edited by RobH
typo
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I think alternators pull air in through the rear to avoid debris and gunk from the fan belt being drawn into the alternator, so reversing air flow may be less than ideal.

The non-original Denso copies may well have the same reliability issues as the other reproduction alternators in that they are built to a price rather than quality.

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1 hour ago, Andy Moltu said:

I think alternators pull air in through the rear to avoid debris and gunk from the fan belt being drawn into the alternator, so reversing air flow may be less than ideal.

Another reason is that the heat-sensitive electronic bits are at the rear so having reverse flow should mean they get cooler air; air flowing the other way would come past the hot windings before it got to the electronics. 

Unfortunately that doesn't work as intended on a 4-pot TR because the generator is mounted just in front of the exhaust manifold....... That didn't matter much when the car was designed, as it had a dynamo with no electronics in it. 

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1 hour ago, Oldtowny said:

Is that with the guts removed?  Why are E & F connected?

The guts have been isolated - you can see on the RHS above the A1 terminal,  the ends of the brass strips which have been cut.  I expect the ignition lamp is connected to the E terminal (which is not earthed)  so that the original wire from F can be used as an extension to connect the lamp to the IGN terminal on the alternator.  The control box is just being used as a convenient  way of connecting together the existing wires to achieve the "Fig 10" configuration. 

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One thing to consider (I did when converting mine to alternator) was not wiring the output of the alternator through the "AMPS" gauge on the dash. It's rated to 30A and if you're putting 45A through it that might not be a good idea(!)

I wired the output of the alternator to the +ve side of the solenoid (i.e. inline with the +ve side of the battery), which bypasses the gauge completely. Downside is that the AMPS gauge only shows discharge now, but I prefer that to converting the gauge to a voltmeter.

Cheers

Adey

PS: I'm currently replacing an alternator on an Alfa GTV V6 - I will NEVER moan about working on a TR ever again! (even if I have to take the gearbox out again!)

Edited by Ade-TR4
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27 minutes ago, Ade-TR4 said:

One thing to consider (I did when converting mine to alternator) was not wiring the output of the alternator through the "AMPS" gauge on the dash. It's rated to 30A and if you're putting 45A through it that might not be a good idea(!)

That isn't really a problem Adey as I have explained before.   Just because an alternator is rated at (say) 45A does not mean it will always supply that much - it only supplies what it is asked for up to that limit.  Appreciable current will only flow through the ammeter immediately after starting when the battery 'asks' for a re-charge, and uprating the alternator will not alter what the battery 'asks for' so the charging current should be more-or-less the same as before - if you are worried about it just refrain from revving the engine hard immediately after starting.  

The ammeter is a pretty robust bit of kit and won't mind a few seconds of minor overload anyway, even if it does happen.  Changing the wiring by connecting the alternator direct to the battery just results in the ammeter reading incorrectly by showing a discharge all the time.   

 

 

Edited by RobH
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+1. I have a 45 amp alternator and it is wired through the 30 amp ammeter. On initial start up, even after cranking for a while to get the fuel up after a period of non use, the ammeter jumps to about 20/25 amp charge, but within 30 seconds is back down to 10 amps or so and within a couple of minutes back to zero.  Not saying that if you had a clapped out battery the alternator wouldn`t try to put more charge in, but I have not had any problems in 5 years so far.

Ralph

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