Looking for a very early TR4 temperature gauge

[Lebro]

The sort that looks much like the TR2-3 capillary type without the shielded top half of the needle, but is electric.

Condition not that important as I would re-furbish it. Also a compatible sender would be nice !

Bob

[rcreweread]

Bob  - I was told by my gauge reconditioner that the attached gauge, see photo, was an early TR4 gauge, used when the domed (ex TR3 )gauges ran out 

It is electric but I'm not sure it fits your description - let me know if it's any good

Cheers Rich C-R

[Lebro]

Hi Richard.

No, that is a later one (I hav eone of those, but having looked at a friends TR4 it's not the one I'm after.

The one I want looks just like the TR3 type, you can see the top of the needle. where it bends backwards to enter the inside of the gauge

  Like here 

Bob

[rcreweread]

3 hours ago, Lebro said:

Hi Richard.

No, that is a later one (I hav eone of those, but having looked at a friends TR4 it's not the one I'm after.

The one I want looks just like the TR3 type, you can see the top of the needle. where it bends backwards to enter the inside of the gauge

  Like here 

Bob

Bob - OK but does the one you want have a domed or flat glass?

Cheers Rich C-R

[Lebro]

To be honest, I don't care  as I can always change it from flat to domed, I have spares of other gauges I can rob.

Bob

[openroad]

I am looking for one Bob, will let you know.

Conrad 

[david ferry]

Bob,

I’ve asked around and also put the word out to see what’s possible to find.

Im sure you know this, but these are difficult to find as they weren’t fitted to many cars.

The reference number on the gauge face is BT2300/00.

If I hear of anything, I’ll let you know.

I did see that there was a full set of early TR4 gauges in an early silver panel for sale in USA. To be honest, they were not expensive for what they are, but the shipping and duty would add a lot to the price.

David

[Lebro]

Thanks all

Bob

[Lebro]

Taking the pi** ?

https://www.scparts.co.uk/en/jaeger-water-temperature-gauge/21395/

Bob

[Lebro]

Rimmers have them in stock for £90, but would prefer a 2nd hand one I can refurbish.

Bob

[stuart]

11 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Taking the pi** ?

https://www.scparts.co.uk/en/jaeger-water-temperature-gauge/21395/

Bob

I suspect a typo

Stuart.

[Lebro]

Yep, another rice of £88 is shown below, probably plus VAT =£105 similar to Rimmers

Bob

[Lebro]

Now sorted, thanks to Ricky30DK.

Bob

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

3 hours ago, Lebro said:

Now sorted, thanks to Ricky30DK.

Bob

You didn’t find 2 did you?    Keith will want one to replace the TR4A electric temp gauge in his TR2.    He is currently proposing going back to capillary type. 

[Lebro]

Sorry, no.

Rimmers do them for £90.  I will have 2 X working capillery gauges on offer soon if he goes that route.

Bob

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

5 hours ago, Lebro said:

Sorry, no.

Rimmers do them for £90.  I will have 2 X working capillery gauges on offer soon if he goes that route.

Bob

Thank you Bob I will tell him

[Lebro]

Just been calibrating my newly aquired (& modified by fitting TR3 dial) temperature gauge against the Moss temperature sender.

for reference 90°F resistance = 430ohms  185°F resistance - 63 ohms, & at 208°F (the highest I could get with kettle) resistance = 43 ohms.

  

In practice youi just set it to be correct at 185°, & guess as near as possible at 208°

I then took a look at the more modern TR4 gauge which I bought at Malvern. It is the type with a shroud over the top of the needle.

Well, once the rim, glass, & shroud were removed it was plain to see that the mechanism behind was just the same as the early one I have been calibrating.

So as long as you have a TR3 dial, any of the TR4 gauge types can be converted to look like a capillery type.

 

  

Bob

Edited July 25, 2024 by Lebro

[Drewmotty]

That’s useful info Bob. Well done. 

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

8 hours ago, Lebro said:

Just been calibrating my newly aquired (& modified by fitting TR3 dial) temperature gauge against the Moss temperature sender.

for reference 90°F resistance = 430ohms  185°F resistance - 63 ohms, & at 208°F (the highest I could get with kettle) resistance = 43 ohms.

  

In practice youi just set it to be correct at 185°, & guess as near as possible at 208°

I then took a look at the more modern TR4 gauge which I bought at Malvern. It is the type with a shroud over the top of the needle.

Well, once the rim, glass, & shroud were removed it was plain to see that the mechanism behind was just the same as the early one I have been calibrating.

So as long as you have a TR3 dial, any of the TR4 gauge types can be converted to look like a capillery type.

 

  

Bob

Not so for the ammeters I have.   The TR2/3 face/dial does not want to accept TR4/5 50-0-50 ammeter guts and needle.

Edited July 26, 2024 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[Lebro]

Just revisited the profiling of the recently purchased GTR104 temperature sender marked B710, & 02 / 26

90° F     32°C   360 ohms
132°F    55°C   163 ohms
185°F    85°C     65 ohms
208°F    98°C     45 ohms
212°F    100°C    43 ohms
230°F   110°C     34 ohms
250°F   121°C     27 ohms

Up to 212° tested in water, 230° & 250° tested in oil.

Bob

Edited July 26, 2024 by Lebro
Adding Centigrade scale

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

2 hours ago, Lebro said:

Just revisited the profiling of the recently purchased GTR104 temperature sender marked B710, & 02 / 26

90° F   360 ohms
132°F   163 ohms
185°F    65 ohms
208°F    45 ohms
212°F    43 ohms
230°F   34 ohms
250°F   27 ohms

Up to 212° tested in water, 230° & 250° tested in oil.

Bob

Good and useful info.

As a matter of interest how did you heat the oil, and what method did you use to check its temperature?    I got into boiling antifreeze in an old kettle using a meat temp probe for measurement when testing thermostats.  

[Lebro]

Small suacepan on the kitchen stove, used a small "kitchen" digital thermometer, normally used for jam making, or testing inside temperature of joints of meat.
I now know why the electric TR4 temperature gauge has different end readings to the capillery type.

Capillery marked 90, 185, 230   Electric marked 110, 185, 250.
I have spent all afternoon attempting to get my converted gauge to read correctly, but have failed. I can make it read low at 110°, & hi at 250°

but not 90°, & 230°  It's the extra 20 degs  at the top end, there is not enough mechanical adjustment. & the whole setup is pretty flakey in my opinion !
but once I accepted that it would only go full scale at 250° then it was easy to to set the 185 spot, which is the only important one really

To do this I used a selection of resistors to mimic the sender - much quicker to change over from one reading to another.

Bob

Edited July 26, 2024 by Lebro

[RobH]

Nice work Bob.

Those numbers for a GTR 104  are a similar but a bit different from others like this.  Pity these are in degrees C so not directly comparable  but they do seem to be considerably higher at the low temperature end (eg your 90F = 32C is  360 Ohms as opposed to 500 odd here)  though the difference gets less further up the temperature range. 

I wonder what the variation is like between different examples of the senders ?  

[Lebro]

Quite a lot I would have thought. Centigade scale added to above.

Bob

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

11 hours ago, Lebro said:

Quite a lot I would have thought. Centigade scale added to above.

Bob

Do you want me to poke about in the drawers and find all the temp sender units I might have?,   Not sure if I have any but I am willing to go searching if it helps.   Would get them to Tongham on Monday if I find any.

I have an used sender marked GTR108 and a new one without any markings.

You are welcome to borrow to see if they are of any use.

I’ll take them to Farnham/Tongham on Monday.

Edited July 27, 2024 by BlueTR3A-5EKT