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Front brakes Squealing solution?


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Hi all

I've a standard set up front to back with Mintex pads up front with 3M self adhesive shims as a search on here suggested they resolved squealing which they initially did. However over the last few months the squealing is back when coming to almost a stop. Also there is a "scraping"sound up front which disappears on braking and for a short while on releasing the brakes which then gradually returns. Otherwise for a 50 year old car she stops well enough.

So I'm fed up of the noise it and want it gone!

Suspect the pads aren't returning back into the callipers and catching the discs - squeal/scraping.   

I'm planning on going back to solid shims and adding springs to the pads. These https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370521816641?itmmeta=01HZJBA8TACCJE4P3WT8R72BSW&hash=item5644d23e41:g:BaUAAOxyhlJRdOje&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4AOm2NGcNn8Mx%2FAVsnhPDWDBC%2FuObAi5fxJrR4pqFkVUcY4BQU3Hw8TL1HK7RjbDAgon5eyN1x4NfyLW34YA%2B0TYLm23i%2B5O00mKh6b1AymWSAEW%2FYR%2FtdOMmjOaIKTEYdDKMykBthb8gUHh5VhyzjtM4AyVQTywDlX56RjZO7XF3UM0%2Bh%2F95X5uSa7B%2BkDzxMiZXwWrixcyarOqMWq6aN7oai3qMI5lo2TtGQnSdOwjSCV8pBUXWogf25K%2BGBnoKISVFbM4a6LnxeTw%2FzsrLJuyYPpytFFGr3tCsL3fQV3K|tkp%3ABk9SR6CNqcv8Yw

Any pics of how they fit or other tips and tricks appreciated!

Or is there a better brake compound/brand?

Andy

 

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Hi Andi,

I use different shims,

giving more load on the running off side of the pads and less on the running on side.

This is how period ATE calipers (Germany) work to avoid squelching and wedged wear out of the friction material.

Ciao, Marco 

Edited by Z320
Sorry: squealing, not squeezing
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32 minutes ago, Z320 said:

Hi Andi,

I use different shims,

giving more load on the running off side of the pads and less on the running on side.

This is how period ATE calipers (Germany) work to avoid squeezing and wedged wear out of the friction material.

Ciao, Marco 

Did you also grind away part of the contact face of the piston that pushes the pad, as ATE image has?   I guess that would  tip the pad away from the disc as the spring above acts on the pads.   Would cut away shims between the pad and the piston give the same effect?

IMG_0103.jpeg

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Sorry Peter,

of course I didn't do anything on the brake pistons!

The shims I use do effect the same. Nobody please modifies the pistons!

Btw the shims already came with the car when I bought it in 2009.

Looked like this...

AP1GczP0u1OBuHiPP_j1uC6tFLi2fL0vKbezOxko

Now I use this.

AP1GczOivi336BQ-yXfiaD16P2V5FbdAsI09dSqn

Yesterday evening I had no photo of them, so I had to look for one at the internet.

Hopefully nobody misunderstood me.

Btw some calipers with a small and a big piston are very likely made this way to get the same benefit.

A bit out of fashion this issue…?

Ciao, Marco

 

Edited by Z320
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Andy, can see th epoint of th eabove, other thing to try, obviously copper slip on the back of the pads,

and chamfer the edges of then just a fraction.

John.

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I had horrible breaking in pad squeal with Red Stuff pads  until I used CRC Disc Brake Pad Quiet, and I always lightly chamfer the pad edges . Since the days of drum brakes I've felt that chamfering helps the braking media bed in.

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3 hours ago, Z320 said:

Sorry Peter,

of course I didn't do anything on the brake pistons!

The shims I use do effect the same. Nobody please modifies the pistons!

Btw the shims already came with the car when I bought it in 2009.

Looked like this...

AP1GczP0u1OBuHiPP_j1uC6tFLi2fL0vKbezOxko

Now I use this.

AP1GczOivi336BQ-yXfiaD16P2V5FbdAsI09dSqn

Yesterday evening I had no photo of them, so I had to look for one at the internet.

Hopefully nobody misunderstood me.

Btw some calipers with a small and a big piston are very likely made this way to get the same benefit.

A bit out of fashion this issue…?

Ciao, Marco

 

Thank you.   That is exactly the same design of shim that I use.

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Thanks for all the advice I'll give them a go and see what happens!

Andy

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Make sure the pads slide cleanly into the caliper, use a file if required. Then coppaslip on back of pad & shim plus a smear on top & bottom edges of pad backing plate where it contacts caliper.

Both designs of shim have worked for me. Never needed springs which presumably would stop pad rattle if you had it.

Jerry

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2 hours ago, jerrytr5 said:

Make sure the pads slide cleanly into the caliper, use a file if required. Then coppaslip on back of pad & shim plus a smear on top & bottom edges of pad backing plate where it contacts caliper.

Both designs of shim have worked for me. Never needed springs which presumably would stop pad rattle if you had it.

Jerry

Yep thats the way Ive always fitted them, also a smear along the pin too, those half cutaway shims are standard fit anyway though obviously lots have been lost over the yrears as people forgot/couldnt be bothered to refit, never needed springs as your pads should be sliding on the pins neatly not ratling around

Stuart.

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Hi,

I had problem when I filed brake pad a bit too much for an easy fit.

They moved free after braking and smashed against the calipers with a very loud "clonk" at the end of each breaking.

For example the last meters in front of a traffic light, when the TR was close to stop and I was already a bit off from the brake pedal.... "CLONK"

The pads must have a sliding but close fit in the calipers.

Ciao, Marco

Edited by Z320
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For now I’ve done as above fitted full metal shims pins with fresh copper slip to piston contact surfaces, pins and caliper grooves. The pads slide in and out of the grooves with no roughness.

There was a high point to the front edges of the friction material which I’ve chamfered.
 

As to the springs I might be thick here but I couldn’t see how or where they would fit as I failed to find a picture.  Marcos option seems more logical if the above fails. 
 

Andy
 

 

IMG_4122.jpeg

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15 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

image.jpeg.ea56523e4775d35c4b054e295804d3b6.jpeg

 

 

Thanks Peter seemed too long but since I have them there going on!

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10 minutes ago, PodOne said:

Thanks Peter seemed too long but since I have them there going on!

Cut to fit?

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Update.

Scrapping noise gone one of the dust shields was just catching quick bend job done.

All of the above done, Shims, pins and pad grooves copper slipped, pads chamfered and springs cut and fitted everything moves freely no binding brakes well BUT she still "squeals like a pig boy" when coming to a complete stop!! Otherwise there is no noise applying the brakes in any other condition.

I said the pads were Mintex there not they are Ferrodo.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks

Andy

    

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Andy

Sometimes you're just unlucky. I had Mintex on LNK, tried/ did everything you did. Did all the 70 to 50, 50 to zero repeated stops (almost impossible NW7, landed up on the M1 at 2am:ph34r:) Just couldn't sort them, so bought new pads, Moss Ceramic (going on tour that weekend, no time, Moss just around the M25 from me) Actually they have been brilliant as road use pads, no laps, but plenty of Alps :D

Hope you sort them................

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For Andy,

please regard the direction of rotation.

AP1GczP2wqfEBOoRZZYm3MwD0sRMP2nMXoIbF0iu

The "Spreizfeder" I made from 15 x 0.5 mm mild spring steel,

this is from scrap, used as straps for transporting issues around boxes, tubes, steel.

AP1GczNC66Ef111LaMNvG0J0cCtxhRO3ylfuP-au

The long piece I reduced from 15 mm to 1/2".

Currently I use Mindex 1144 but will not buy them anymore:

not much better than others, to expensive and they did not last for a long time.

Ciao, Marco

 

Edited by Z320
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Thanks Marco I’ll set to work and report the results.

Andy

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Bit of oil on the discs - that would make a noise under braking? spray some brake cleaner on the discs then try it?  

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2 hours ago, elclem1 said:

Bit of oil on the discs - that would make a noise under braking? spray some brake cleaner on the discs then try it?  

I tend to be a bit more extreme, take the disc off and go round with 36grit flap disc lightly and then clean off with thinners. Often people fit new discs and dont clean the transport film off them which contaminates pads, put a piece of 80 grit on a flat surface and skim the pad faces across it too.

Stuart.

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Posted (edited)

Originally cheapo pads no noise issue but **** stopping power swamped out for the current Ferrodo pads everything was thoroughly cleaned in between.

Edited by PodOne
Post disappeared and reappeared IT never works!
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Thanks Marco for the dimensions I'm sure they will help me and others.

The discs were cleaned well with brake cleaner. The original pads were cheap aftermarket ones which were poor at stopping the car but interestingly quite!

The Ferrodo's started off as quite fitted with 3M backing pads which on removal one of the pistons had eaten its way through to the back of the metal of the pad.

On reflection I wonder it there would be enough space to refit the 3Ms plus a metal shim if Marcos modified shims fail to work or I could just wear ear plugs!

Andy

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