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Fuel leak at rubber/copper join


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I've discovered a slight fuel leak at the join between the copper and rubber pipes in the engine bay; I have a new section of Gates rubber pipe to fit but wondered whether there is any other method of improving the joint? I've seen online comments about soldering an olive to the copper pipe, which would be fine with a new build, not so great with a line with petrol vapour/residue in perhaps. Any other suggestions?

VMT

 David

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2 minutes ago, qkingston said:

I've discovered a slight fuel leak at the join between the copper and rubber pipes in the engine bay; I have a new section of Gates rubber pipe to fit but wondered whether there is any other method of improving the joint? I've seen online comments about soldering an olive to the copper pipe, which would be fine with a new build, not so great with a line with petrol vapour/residue in perhaps. Any other suggestions?

VMT

 David

Just make sure to use the right type of Hose Fasteners for Rubber Petrol Pipe and maybe give the Copper Pipe a roughen up with a File so the rubber hose gets a better grip.

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David if you have new pipe, not yet cut to length then, if you are concerned, slide a bit extra down the copper - say an inch or so and fit two clips half an inch apart.

Can't see you'll have an issue then 

John.

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Have had an issue with rubber hoses slipping off the bulkhead heater connection.   This is due to there not being a swage or flare on the pipe 

I simply flared the pipe using a cheap brake pipe flaring tool

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203057243107?epid=4020579829&itmmeta=01HRM7RW7VSQ0P0SZN0EDWYYYH&hash=item2f4727a3e3:g:wOYAAOSwK71gdwut&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8IzKo5vFQO5VOSC6tpBQ0JEvQi6OBBf5Cc7ur9qixqXj5NH68ai8GkVwdhKkyusSH0BkkgtgDoNDbwbrQCBvAr7SRmLY%2FGcMzHSO2BPXef8pqfxP1Wms9uJK9R7eW0fcBstyN1%2FUJ3y7JLiNV6thYjB4jOzKAjYnKxDEzgKY9KGcJcOw15b0emlhQjMSTUeMY63Q%2FbKQeqTP8D8g17UwUhOFUnLtPm%2FGB110dq07wyh0e%2F8ZAsPc1OqjSVTIVdQ66NzOnS%2B7VcigHAvexReUklSgOQ9WSGyFXenscBDL85pKFB8SFWLs6RMzdkVhW9oSHg%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6TE44fFYw

 

This will probably work on your fuel supply pipe and you will not have to remove it nor wave a flame ar it.   Do a sample test to see how much flaring is needed such that the rubber hose will fit over.

Do not use ‘jubilee’ type screw clips.  My experience is that they will not go small enough and stay circular.   Use spring type ‘mikalor or Otiker clips.   They maintain spring pressure on the hose as it squishes out from below the clip.

This type of kit serves me well.  Use nail pincers to fit.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364647402584?itmmeta=01HRM886XWZHDEBQESEZJKWVWZ&hash=item54e6adcc58:g:HGMAAOSwgl9iIc69&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8KiyuH%2BE5DWqL8A8TS5u0%2BB%2BmKOVKfxW8EJjRa2tMXPZaY0%2F%2BVKGAMcDYeddHxHOjgG%2FHI1Jj02TcXuY3wNcBKFqCk3cFNdpiOunQDuyL%2BoAltqEk1xvOl1Tnc3aR0V1YlnMpB7CMsWF6fiE%2B1F7z4pvfBisQMkwPxOVj5pGt7yK8R4SrvKJsHef03xGrJeiekdi9VHtG0QDPz7FGWjuTTvRTPuTunL7qgLKx8%2Bul5Qzj%2FGmF8uk1XXBLZ9OcYXwOBUmN4N0at4YkooJY1n7j6nvIpYiGGZG4NYqCJNBqQ0QgQZcz1ofrNRwKO52Sw%2B%2F8g%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR5LvoIjFYw
 

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Hi Pete,

I could not remember the name Mikalor - hence my 'Jubilee' type comment.

 

Regarding the pipe grip -

For copper it is easy to solder a ring of copper wire around the pipe in the gripping area.

For steel pipe -  one can do the same after tinning the steel

 

Roger

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5 minutes ago, phil Dean said:

I thought these were the correct jubilee clips for fuel pipes.

Those are indeed the correct Mikalor-style clips for fuel lines Phil.  

Jubilee clips are the worm-drive ones and in small sizes those do not remain properly circular because of the worm mechanism, hence they don't grip the full circumference equally.  

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Thanks guys, useful tips. I realise now that that pipe join had jubilee clips, all the others (carbs/in-line filter) have the mikalor spring clips....no leaks!! 

You live and learn!

David

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19 hours ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

I’m having the exact same challenge in tightening the hoses after fitting a new heater valve last year.  But, the bulkhead twin hose fitting (611043 adapter through bulkhead) is stainless steel in my case.  I’ve just bought some Mikalor hose clips to try to better secure the hose but hadn’t thought of swaging the fitting.  I imagine such wouldn’t work on stainless ?

Paul

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The fitting I had to swage was stainless.   The clamp part of the tool I have fitted snuggly and then  I formed a simple flare to the tube to increase its final diameter.

Be sure to remove any nicks or burrs from the tube end that could cut the hose.

I have just done a dummy test on my old mild steel bulkhead fitting to flare the tube ends in the same way as I did to the stainless one I have recently fitted.

i used the brake pipe tool clamp to hold the 1/2” pipe then swaged the pipe end with a conical punch ( the one I use for push rod tubes on wet liner egines)

IMG_5683.jpeg

IMG_5684.jpeg

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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So I put a single male flare on the pipe it fits well into the R9 rubber pipe and secured with Mikalor clips , hopefully that's the end of that!

David

20240312_154228.jpg

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34 minutes ago, qkingston said:

So I put a single male flare on the pipe it fits well into the R9 rubber pipe and secured with Mikalor clips , hopefully that's the end of that!

David

20240312_154228.jpg

Spot on.  That’ll fix it.

 

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On 3/11/2024 at 9:18 AM, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

The fitting I had to swage was stainless.   The clamp part of the tool I have fitted snuggly and then  I formed a simple flare to the tube to increase its final diameter.

Be sure to remove any nicks or burrs from the tube end that could cut the hose.

I have just done a dummy test on my old mild steel bulkhead fitting to flare the tube ends in the same way as I did to the stainless one I have recently fitted.

i used the brake pipe tool clamp to hold the 1/2” pipe then swaged the pipe end with a conical punch ( the one I use for push rod tubes on wet liner egines)

IMG_5683.jpeg

IMG_5684.jpeg

Looks like the change to as stainless adaptor was overdue Peter, although in fairness my original mild steel item on the 4A was worse than yours before I finally got round to the upgrade.

Tim

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5 hours ago, glasgow4a said:

I asked a question about bulkhead fitting 611043 in stainless steel on Sunday. I am disappointed to note i have had no replies. I have now checked with Moss to find it is NCA, cheers Ian.

My research did not find any available in the UK either.   Hence no response.

 

There seems to be mild steel available in UK. Alternative is T7 Designs billet aluminium that the would need a bit of fiddling to install 

https://www.jamespaddock.co.uk/heater-connector-on-bulkhead-3.      You could ring them and ask if they do a stainless one.


https://www.t7design.co.uk/13-13mm-1-2-1-2-bulkhead-hose-adapter-narrow-c55-8d1-cc6.html

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm replacing the short length of copper fuel pipe into the fuel pump, I have lengths of pipe but I notice that one is 7.94mm x 0.71 and the other is 7.94mm x 0.9mm, which is correct and does it make any difference (I assume wall thickness)?

Many thanks

David

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