Any problems with 10% Ethanol ?

[Don H.]

15 minutes ago, john.r.davies said:

Like "Marvel Mystery Oil" , in America, "Seafoam" appears to be better than bread presented in individual slices. For any, absolutely any, engine problem.   Bit like WD40.

It is more usual that remedies that are presented as cure-all nostrums are the reverse, the province of know-nothing quacks!

John

Pretty harsh, dontcha think, John?  Exactly who are you calling a know-nothing quack?  

My small engines have run better with pure gas and a stabilizer (whether that's STA-BIL, Seafoam, Lucas Oil fuel stabilizer, or who knows what).  That's empirical data.  And correlation is of course not causation.  is a fuel stabilizer transformative?  Nope.  Have I run experiments well-designed enough to separate the different factors?  Nope.  Have I had a no-start season-kickoff situation or the need to rebuild a carb since I started using that combo five or six years ago?  Another nope.

And BTW, WD-40 is a good laundry greasy-stain remover, so it has at least one use.

[multipletriumphsinner]

I only drive Triumph's, and have never had the 'luxury' of a modern motor.

My day to day cars vary, but it is always a Triumph.

I use bog standard cheapest I can find fuel, and no issues to report to date.

[john.r.davies]

No reflection on you, at all, Don, and if you can explain, in detail, how Seafoam works, then you are not a quack!

John

[jocklow@aol.com]

To revert to the E10 debate, I don't see any discussion of the fuel pump. The diaphram in the fuel pump must be elastic to oerate which probably means rubberised to some extent. Why isn't this the worst failure area? Can anyone reassure me that this is OK? Other than the fact that some people seem to have run cars on E10 in countries where they had to without problems?

I can replace with new any bits of rubber hose in my system and my SU's have metal floats and float valves. But I'm stuck with my fuel pump.

Jock

[multipletriumphsinner]

On 7/28/2022 at 9:30 AM, jocklow@aol.com said:

To revert to the E10 debate, I don't see any discussion of the fuel pump. The diaphram in the fuel pump must be elastic to oerate which probably means rubberised to some extent. Why isn't this the worst failure area? Can anyone reassure me that this is OK? Other than the fact that some people seem to have run cars on E10 in countries where they had to without problems?

I can replace with new any bits of rubber hose in my system and my SU's have metal floats and float valves. But I'm stuck with my fuel pump.

Jock

But I have done none of that (converted hoses, SU floats, pump diaphragm, etc, etc) on any of our Triumphs, As I mentioned above I only drive Triumphs, and so does the wife, and we only use E10 fuel, and to date no problems to report. I know its not a scientific report, but between us we do over 25,000 miles a year (give or take) in a variety of Triumphs (and the odd Standard).

Perhaps this is an issue for the high day, and holiday brigade, but its certainly not an issue for the everyday user.

[Ralph Whitaker]

4 minutes ago, multipletriumphsinner said:

But I have done none of that (converted hoses, SU floats, pump diaphragm, etc, etc) on any of our Triumphs, As I mentioned above I only drive Triumphs, and so does the wife, and we only use E10 fuel, and to date no problems to report. I know its not a scientific report, but between us we do over 25,000 miles a year (give or take) in a variety of Triumphs (and the odd Standard).

Perhaps this is an issue for the high day, and holiday brigade, but its certainly not an issue for the everyday user.

Maybe the original hoses were better made as the cars were sent all over the world into markets where different fuels were used, but in the last 10 or so years I have had 2 failures related to rotting rubber, the first was a metal braided fuel pipe I bought and fitted on my austin that went from the pump to the carburettor. In the second year of use after the winter lay up I was smelling petrol and investigation showed it was oozing out of the metal braiding on the pipe as the rubber inside was just crumbling. 

The second failure was more recent, on a fuel pressure regulator, where the seal on the adjuster failed and started leaking fuel. Admittedly it was a cheap regulator that proudly displayed a sticker on the back saying " suitable for unleaded fuel", but no mention of being suitable for unleaded with Ethanol added.

Incidentally, I have been looking for new fuel hose, and all those for sale at my local car shop say "suitable for unleaded", but when I asked whether that also meant they were safe for our current unleaded with ethanol I just got blank looks and an " I suppose so". So I didn`t buy it.

Ralph

[multipletriumphsinner]

5 minutes ago, Ralph Whitaker said:

Maybe the original hoses were better made as the cars were sent all over the world into markets where different fuels were used, but in the last 10 or so years I have had 2 failures related to rotting rubber, the first was a metal braided fuel pipe I bought and fitted on my austin that went from the pump to the carburettor. In the second year of use after the winter lay up I was smelling petrol and investigation showed it was oozing out of the metal braiding on the pipe as the rubber inside was just crumbling. 

The second failure was more recent, on a fuel pressure regulator, where the seal on the adjuster failed and started leaking fuel. Admittedly it was a cheap regulator that proudly displayed a sticker on the back saying " suitable for unleaded fuel", but no mention of being suitable for unleaded with Ethanol added.

Incidentally, I have been looking for new fuel hose, and all those for sale at my local car shop say "suitable for unleaded", but when I asked whether that also meant they were safe for our current unleaded with ethanol I just got blank looks and an " I suppose so". So I didn`t buy it.

Ralph

I think those problems are more to do with poor quality aftermarket parts in the first place, not necessarily the fuel you are using. Ive had rubber fuel parts fall to bits, but that was an ongoing problem long before ethanol mixing was introduced. I'm i the trade so I know full well the issues of rubber component quality, and it goes a long way back.

I was going to say that none of our cars still has its original rubber fuel bits fitted, as no rubber component (including brake seal rubbers) could, or should last more than ten years at the very most, but thinking about it I think one of our Atlas's, and maybe our Herald 948 still have there rubber factory bits fitted.

[Phil Read]

On 7/28/2022 at 9:30 AM, jocklow@aol.com said:

To revert to the E10 debate, I don't see any discussion of the fuel pump. The diaphram in the fuel pump must be elastic to oerate which probably means rubberised to some extent. Why isn't this the worst failure area? Can anyone reassure me that this is OK? Other than the fact that some people seem to have run cars on E10 in countries where they had to without problems?

I can replace with new any bits of rubber hose in my system and my SU's have metal floats and float valves. But I'm stuck with my fuel pump.

Jock

You can buy ethanol resistant diaphragm kits for mechanical fuel pumps.

[Moliver]

Hi All,  As written, lots of reports, prior to E10 market implementation (2011) and recently in German car magazines as well. I have used E10 from the very beginning (2011) with all my classic vehicles and cannot report any negativ observation. I am not concerned about rubber seals at all, as they do deteriorate over time and do need frequent exchange anyway. The only negative fact however is, that the longtherm storage capabilities of Ex fuels is worse to any non-E content fuels. This is because a bacteria specie loves eating up the organic fuel incredients and leaves their feces in the fuel accoringly. The feces has the substance of very fine flour. Fine enough to pass any fuel filter but as well clogg it.  It is therefore recommended to always add fuel stablizer additive even for the short winter period.

Other than this, I recommend to invest the fuel cost  savings in decent real ale and enjoy. (Who knows which kind of fuels we will be offered from 2035 onwards...)

Cheers

Oliver

[rcreweread]

1 hour ago, Phil Read said:

You can buy ethanol resistant diaphragm kits for mechanical fuel pumps.

Phil - that is indeed true, but I can only report what Dave Davies ( for those not familiar with Dave, he is the acknowledged expert on these) told me, and that was that he has had a number of pumps with these " ethanol proof" diaphragms sent to him for refurbishment, and to quote his own words, they were "cr-p" and defective.

His dwindling stock of diaphragms are ex MOD and designed to run on anything,  the most toxic fuel concoctions you can find - I know which ones I would fit!

Cheers Rich

[Don H.]

48 minutes ago, rcreweread said:

Phil - that is indeed true, but I can only report what Dave Davies ( for those not familiar with Dave, he is the acknowledged expert on these) told me, and that was that he has had a number of pumps with these " ethanol proof" diaphragms sent to him for refurbishment, and to quote his own words, they were "cr-p" and defective.

His dwindling stock of diaphragms are ex MOD and designed to run on anything,  the most toxic fuel concoctions you can find - I know which ones I would fit!

Cheers Rich

I'm a fan of Dave's work too, Rich -- he's restored a couple of pumps for me, using my Goodwood visits and friend's help to make the logistics workable.

But we do have options for ethanol-resistant pump diaphragms, over here at least.  The Roadster Factory kit (an older version shown on the left in these 10+ year old images) has a diaphragm from Effbe in France that showed zero effect from our ethanol-containing fuels over 5-8 years of use.