sebring Posted April 29, 2022 Report Share Posted April 29, 2022 hi, having looked on the 'web can't find anything definitive that says if our historic status / MOT exemption is valid in Europe (particularly in France). has anyone any information as to the requirement? anyone organising any trips abroad that might have an answer? hope to hear from you soon Reagrds Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james christie Posted April 29, 2022 Report Share Posted April 29, 2022 I believe that if you have your documents in order in your own European country, this is acceptable (even for the French) However, I would have thought it foolish to venture anywhere, especially abroad, without having your car checked over by a competetent authority! But you don’t have to believe me……. james Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sebring Posted April 29, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2022 Hi, many thanks for the response and I know the arguments - but that wasn't the question and unfortunately, we in the UK are no longer viewed by EU member states as a "European" country - as it happens I am a very competent engineer, having restored/built/maintained several classics including historic race cars - I'm just not one authorized by UK HM Gov't to issue MOT certificates - just trying to get some clarity on the paperwork requirements. But thanks again Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted April 29, 2022 Report Share Posted April 29, 2022 (edited) Why not contact one of the companies that does European tours for classics. ? They are bound to know the rules. or for £35 peace of mind - just get it mot’d Edited April 29, 2022 by Hamish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rogerguzzi Posted April 29, 2022 Report Share Posted April 29, 2022 1 hour ago, Hamish said: Why not contact one of the companies that does European tours for classics. ? They are bound to know the rules. or for £35 peace of mind - just get it mot’d Seems the cheap option no matter how good an engineer you are better than arguing with a frog copper! Plus I think if you have an acceident the insurance people will be looking for any small fault to limit the pay out but if you have a mot it meets the spec required by law so to me it is a no brainer! Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james christie Posted April 30, 2022 Report Share Posted April 30, 2022 I rest my case, m’lud james Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Misfit Posted May 1, 2022 Report Share Posted May 1, 2022 (edited) Regarding the insurance I am aware of a significant accident where a non MoTed 1972 TR6 was involved. There was no issue with the claim and our TRRI through KGM settled it promptly. Clearly the vehicle needs to be roadworthy. An MoT is not necessarily proof of that, having had a MoT at 9.15 and handbreak failure at 9.30, the hand break cable snapped the vehicle rolled into another. Unfortunately it was observed by a police officer. I was fined for having a unroadworthy vehicle. The recent MoT was not an acceptable defence. It only indicated it was roadworthy at that moment in time. I cannot comment on whether it’s compulsory to have a British MoT in France, but as Hamish said it’s cheap if it gives you peace of mind. Edited May 1, 2022 by Misfit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted May 1, 2022 Report Share Posted May 1, 2022 (edited) " if it gives you peace of mind." Which isn't worth the burnt ions it took for you to savour it ! As I've pointed out before having a yearly MOT is merely a comfort blanket for owners, the additional pair of eyes can be accommodated by having your TR owning friend (who's more knowledgeable about TR likely fail points than a spotty 18 year old mechanic who fails your handbrake reverse ratchet system "as not being in working condition") do the honours and you return the favour to him ! Fair enough if your mechanical skill or experience is non existent, but as pointed out the MOT is only applicable "at that moment in time" don't expect largess from police, the court system or your insurance company the law will be applied mercilessly. The example of a 9:15am MOT pass and a 9:30am accident caused by a failure of an MOT inspectable part which cause your prosecution is a pertinent example. Mick Richards Edited May 1, 2022 by Motorsport Mickey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sebring Posted May 1, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2022 Thanks for all of your replies and I appreciate you all taking the time to respond, but basically, up to now, the answer to my query is "no one knows" or at least "no-one is sure" of the legal requirements. From my perspective, it's a definite shortfall on the part of the TR Register, in that to my mind, they should be advising and publishing to us members as to the definitive and legal requirements for taking our TR's into mainland Europe - as, from my research, the UK Gov't websites are not exactly aligned to classic car usage in this area. The arguments as to the pros/cons of getting an MOT are, for me, irrelevant, it's the principal and establishing the actual legal requirements that is the point. So yes, if any of the club's touring companies would like to respond to my query I would very much like to hear from them, or from any club member that is currently involved in planning a similar trip to Europe that has some definitive information and/or knowledge of this aspect of the legislation. regards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifrog Posted May 2, 2022 Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 I have no legal proof but It’s always been my understanding that if the car is legal in its country of origin then it should be legal when travelling abroad to countries that do not require temporary registration to use their roads. In France if your car is registered before the 1 Jan 1960 and registered as historic it does not need the French equivalent of an MOT except when changing ownership Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted May 2, 2022 Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 9 hours ago, sebring said: Thanks for all of your replies and I appreciate you all taking the time to respond, but basically, up to now, the answer to my query is "no one knows" or at least "no-one is sure" of the legal requirements. From my perspective, it's a definite shortfall on the part of the TR Register, in that to my mind, they should be advising and publishing to us members as to the definitive and legal requirements for taking our TR's into mainland Europe - as, from my research, the UK Gov't websites are not exactly aligned to classic car usage in this area. The arguments as to the pros/cons of getting an MOT are, for me, irrelevant, it's the principal and establishing the actual legal requirements that is the point. So yes, if any of the club's touring companies would like to respond to my query I would very much like to hear from them, or from any club member that is currently involved in planning a similar trip to Europe that has some definitive information and/or knowledge of this aspect of the legislation. regards Read all this with interest, think its a bit unfair to blame the register for us 'Not knowing' and do you want to be the test case? John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted May 2, 2022 Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 9 hours ago, sebring said: Thanks for all of your replies and I appreciate you all taking the time to respond, but basically, up to now, the answer to my query is "no one knows" or at least "no-one is sure" of the legal requirements. From my perspective, it's a definite shortfall on the part of the TR Register, in that to my mind, they should be advising and publishing to us members as to the definitive and legal requirements for taking our TR's into mainland Europe - as, from my research, the UK Gov't websites are not exactly aligned to classic car usage in this area. The arguments as to the pros/cons of getting an MOT are, for me, irrelevant, it's the principal and establishing the actual legal requirements that is the point. So yes, if any of the club's touring companies would like to respond to my query I would very much like to hear from them, or from any club member that is currently involved in planning a similar trip to Europe that has some definitive information and/or knowledge of this aspect of the legislation. regards Perhaps if you need a definitive legal position for not having an mot in France you should be asking a uk/European post brexit specialist QC. And not a forum where lay opinions or very practical solutions ( get an mot) abound. you could wait forever if you want a classic car tour operator to come on the forum to answer your question. Like I said I’d be asking them. may be the register should have this advice for members to hand? Have you asked them directly? I’m sure there will be a contact in TRaction as this is a forum and not the TRR in its entirety. perhaps you should ask your insurers if you are covered ? Aplan include 90 days cover now we are out of Europe do you need a carnet ? be sure to share the definitive when you find out what it is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james christie Posted May 2, 2022 Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 Boy, do I like folk who blame others because they can’t give them the answer they want. Talk about being brought up in the Nanny state! Kiwi, I think that cars in France registered as historic, have also to have a Contrôle Technique every 5 years. james Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Teher Posted May 2, 2022 Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 After 1960 ! if you are registered in historic (Carte Grise « Véhicule de Collection ») with a pre-1960 car, no MOT needed ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifrog Posted May 2, 2022 Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 11 hours ago, james christie said: Boy, do I like folk who blame others because they can’t give them the answer they want. Talk about being brought up in the Nanny state! Kiwi, I think that cars in France registered as historic, have also to have a Contrôle Technique every 5 years. james James cars first registered before 01 Jan 1960 are exempt a control technique, cars first registered after 1 January 1960 registered with a carte grise de collection need a CT every 5 years. Any car registered under carte grise normal ie not voiture de collection is every two years. My 3a has its CT every two years as it is in cg normale https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F328 cheers alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alfrom Posted May 27, 2022 Report Share Posted May 27, 2022 This response is nothing to do with the MoT test but does relate to the awareness of another necessary licence requirement in France. It's also a bit of a game when thinking of the crit.'air vignette (licence - in the form of a windscreen sticker) becoming increasingly relevant in some places in France. I have one for my 'day car' and attempted to find out what I needed for the TR. It turns out that above a certain age, sorry, but I don't know what age that is (- probably related to the time of the introduction of the Euro Norm emission categories), you can't get one as the car is automatically assumed to be too polluting to be allowed access to some areas when the authorities decide to restrict access to prevent the ambient air quality being too bad. Not having a vignette means no entry with the possibility of being fined if found without an acceptable vignette. Originally, this scheme was aimed only at city centres but is likely to soon be applicable to non-city but heavy traffic areas as well. If you want a crit. air vignette for any car, be aware that the process is very easy on the official website and will cost less than 5 euro, but there are some websites that will offer to do it for you and charge £30 or more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted May 28, 2022 Report Share Posted May 28, 2022 16 hours ago, Alfrom said: This response is nothing to do with the MoT test but does relate to the awareness of another necessary licence requirement in France. It's also a bit of a game when thinking of the crit.'air vignette (licence - in the form of a windscreen sticker) becoming increasingly relevant in some places in France. I have one for my 'day car' and attempted to find out what I needed for the TR. It turns out that above a certain age, sorry, but I don't know what age that is (- probably related to the time of the introduction of the Euro Norm emission categories), you can't get one as the car is automatically assumed to be too polluting to be allowed access to some areas when the authorities decide to restrict access to prevent the ambient air quality being too bad. Not having a vignette means no entry with the possibility of being fined if found without an acceptable vignette. Originally, this scheme was aimed only at city centres but is likely to soon be applicable to non-city but heavy traffic areas as well. If you want a crit. air vignette for any car, be aware that the process is very easy on the official website and will cost less than 5 euro, but there are some websites that will offer to do it for you and charge £30 or more. Link to official site https://www.certificat-air.gouv.fr/ Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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