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Black and Silver No- plates


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Hi Guys

Discussion going on on another forum about what year is the cut off date for earlier black and silver plates, I understood it to be any vehicle registered upto Dec 72, ie ------K plate but opinion by some people is that any vehicle over 40 yrs and declared Historic can have them.

I have seen some newer cars in this case Mini's even 1990's running on these plates, there are rumours around that the police are doing a purge and also some mot stations will not pass the cars. This would mean that later TR6'S and indeed Stags could use black/silver plates. Doesn't bother me as I have a 62 TR4 

Just wondered if anyone could clarify this' any policemen out there?

Cheers Phil..

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Phil,

Any car BUILT (Not registered) before 1 January 1980 can have black and silver plates.

The Dec '72 date was changed many years ago, but I still think it related to BUILT not REGISTERED.

There are several reasons why a car could be built before it was registered. I once owned an MGB that was built in a September but not registered until the following February. (It spent all the time between sitting in a field near the factory going rusty because no one wanted to buy them.)

 

Hope that helps.

 

Charlie.

Edited by Charlie D
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On 4/21/2022 at 1:49 PM, Charlie D said:

There are several reasons why a car could be built before it was registered.

Bit difficult the other way around, I suggest.

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As Roger's link explains, the permission to use the Black and Silver/white plates rolled with the 40 year historic status for a few years. I must admit I felt that was wrong and was pleased when it was stopped. There are though now those 7-8 years where vehicles that had the white front and yellow rear plates can now have black. Our '74 Stag still sports it's original dealers (white and yellow) plates and they look right.

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18 hours ago, Richard Pope said:

Bit difficult the other way around, I suggest.

Richard,


When I said:
 “There are several reasons why a car could be built before it was registered.”

I actually meant:
 “…could be built a long time before it was registered…”

My 3A was built in 1959, but not registered until 1975.


However…

When you say :

"...Bit difficult the other way around, I suggest....",

I assume you mean it would not be possible to register a car before it was built.

 

Not correct.

In the 1970’s/80’s I used to build kit car bodies.

My customers would buy a road going, registered, Triumph Herald, complete with a V5 and number plate. They would then remove the Herald body and fit the body that I had sold them onto the Herald chassis (Or a brand new chassis, that I could also supply.)

They would then own a Burlington SS that they had BUILT and take it out on the road and quite legally drive it.
It looked nothing like a Herald, and it was NOT a Herald It was a totally different car. A Burlington.

Some people would send off the V5 and get the details changed so it said the car was a Burlington, some did not bother.
Never did any of them have to re-register the car.

So it was a car BUILT in (say) 1981, but REGISTERED in (say) 1965.

Laws have changed over the years, but I believe that it is still possible to do the same thing so long as the majority of the mechanical parts are the same and that the chassis has not been altered AT ALL. (Not possible these days to build a Burlington like that as the chassis had to be lengthened and the outriggers removed.)

Hope that clarifies the point.

Charlie.

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Personally I think they look so wrong after 73. They just fuzzle my brain as they would never have worn them in period. 
 

In fact a vast majority of new cars from 68 would’ve had the latest reflective ally with raised digits fitted.  

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Charlie. I've been in the kit car world for many years. Your explanation is partly correct in that people did what you did but it was illegal and were cought out when there was an insurance claim or similar. There were many warnings of buying a kit car with a V5 that did not match.

For the last 20 years there has been an SVA then IVA test so today that cannot happen. Yes, there are rules on minimum main donor items and today it is also called a kit conversation. When you pass the IVA you get a new registration date for your 'new car' and an age related plate based on your donor age and emmissions based on your engine age. So my 'other car (see left panel) is registered as built in 2013 but had a 1981 plate. My rolling 40 years comes around in 2053, unfortunately.

 

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On 4/21/2022 at 1:49 PM, Charlie D said:

There are several reasons why a car could be built before it was registered. I once owned an MGB that was built in a September but not registered until the following February. (It spent all the time between sitting in a field near the factory going rusty because no one wanted to buy them.

Charlie.

I may have told before, oh working in an MG dealer at that time.    The apprentices ( it was that long ago) and I were rounded up and bussed to Oxford to deal with a whole compound of Bs that had been flooded. In sewage.

We stripped out the internal trim, the engines were turned over with the plugs out to expel the water - and they went back to the factory to be retrimmed!!!   Anyone ever had a B that smelt of ShOneT in wet weather?

John

 

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9 hours ago, Richard Pope said:

Charlie. I've been in the kit car world for many years. Your explanation is partly correct in that people did what you did but it was illegal and were cought out when there was an insurance claim or similar. There were many warnings of buying a kit car with a V5 that did not match.

For the last 20 years there has been an SVA then IVA test so today that cannot happen. Yes, there are rules on minimum main donor items and today it is also called a kit conversation. When you pass the IVA you get a new registration date for your 'new car' and an age related plate based on your donor age and emmissions based on your engine age. So my 'other car (see left panel) is registered as built in 2013 but had a 1981 plate. My rolling 40 years comes around in 2053, unfortunately.

 

I disagree Richard. I'm with Charlie. The rules at the time (1980's) required that the chassis retained the VIN and registration. There was no ruling on bodywork. Most Hurricane's built in the period (the car, not the plane) are registered as Spitfire/GT6/Herald.  I think it was only in that brief period when 'Q' plates were issued that things began to change.

Bit of thread drift here!

Jerry

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We are talking about different things. Most kit cars changed the chassis usually to a space frame one and to qualify there were major component rules. Insurance companies neede to also know what they were insuring and were known to reject cover if you insured a false car.

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Richard, they are indeed different things. It is however incorrect to say that 'most kit cars changed the chassis'. Early kits may have used Ford 10 or Austin 7 chassis whilst later the Triumph Herald & VW Beetle became very popular. It is only in comparitively modern times that new chassis have become the norm.

So you are both right. Older kits using an original chassis are perfectly legal & covered by insurance. New kits with a new chassis are required to go through an SVA test.

Major thread drift now, so let's end it there.

Jerry

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I remember back in the 1970s cars began to appear with black and white/silver plates with a yellow border, this indicated that the car had been purchased for personal export but were registered for U.K. for a limited period. People who did not know the reason for this and wanted to be trendy began to paint the borders of their plates.

Rodders.

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