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Dare I fit this camshaft?


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Hi! I’m rebuilding my cf engine, and innocently (at the time) bought a used low mileage camshaft. When I stripped my engine I found the original cam is breaking up on a couple of lobes, naturally I felt pleased I had bought something earlier that would be useful! But that was before I started researching what you guys had to say about camshafts and particularly early cf examples..... I have spent many hours studying this forum but I have yet to find the camshaft type number I have bought, It’s MC24006. I was concerned at the time when I realised no-one else had bid on it! So , I’m ready to hear the worst!.... if it’s the grim news I am expecting, has anyone got anything useable for not much money, as at the moment I am really struggling. Regards Alan.

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A look at the front journal, Are there grooves/rings machined in it? 

This is a quick id for standard cams that have not been reground.   

Image -  This cam has 3 rings and probably the number 311399  on it, which would have been fitted originally in a CF TR 6

 

see also

https://www.chriswitor.com/datasheets/camshaft_applications.pdf

 

image.thumb.png.f0fe89c8c0a1ad2008b3f3db32d6ce6e.png

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For the sake of £200 + VAT for a new cam (Newman), based on a new chill cast blank, £132 + VAT for their EN40 steel followers, it makes sense to not get involved and install a secondhand cam.

There are no short cuts to a successful engine !

 

Good luck.

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3 hours ago, TRTOM2498PI said:

For the sake of £200 + VAT for a new cam (Newman), based on a new chill cast blank, £132 + VAT for their EN40 steel followers, it makes sense to not get involved and install a secondhand cam.

There are no short cuts to a successful engine !

 

Good luck.

Good advice there, there's a risk that you end up rebuilding the engine twice if the first cam fails.

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Thanks for your help! The photo is indeed the original cam. Rogers piece did indeed provide the information I sought. Last night I measured the cam height on the cam I bought, which turned out to be about an eighth less, I had already noticed the lobe was much more pointed. I conclude from this, the lesser lift and shorter duration will undoubtedly reduce power significantly, so I won’t bother with it. I have decided I will have to source another cam. The followers that came with the cam are perfect, so it’s not all wasted money. I previously bought a modern distributor which had come off a CR engine, so I guess if anyone out there has a standard CR camshaft spare in good useable condition I would love to buy it if it’s not too pricey. Many thanks again for your input, it has helped me make my decision.

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23 hours ago, TRTOM2498PI said:

For the sake of £200 + VAT for a new cam (Newman), based on a new chill cast blank, £132 + VAT for their EN40 steel followers, it makes sense to not get involved and install a secondhand cam.

There are no short cuts to a successful engine !

 

Good luck.

Have to agree with the above! There were years of complaints and failures on this forum with regrinds supplied by the usual suspects. Newman is the place to go as all his cams are ground on new blanks. I have his PH2 in my car which is better than a CP cam profile and equates to the old SAH 357 cam( BL special Tuning Type ) which they put in the CR engine to restore the original performance to that of the CP engine + more.

Bruce.

 

 

 

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I've got a used, but still good camshaft available if you are interested. It is the 308778 part number, '132bhp' version used in the 2.5PI, Vitesse MkII and GT6. This falls between the 150bhp CP cam and the 125bhp CR cam in terms of performance capabilities.

Not looking for a huge amount for it, certainly much less than a brand new item, so please PM me if you are interested :)

Matt

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thumbnail_IMG_3793.jpg

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6 hours ago, Coops said:

Thanks for your help! The photo is indeed the original cam. Rogers piece did indeed provide the information I sought. Last night I measured the cam height on the cam I bought, which turned out to be about an eighth less, I had already noticed the lobe was much more pointed. I conclude from this, the lesser lift and shorter duration will undoubtedly reduce power significantly, so I won’t bother with it. I have decided I will have to source another cam. The followers that came with the cam are perfect, so it’s not all wasted money. I previously bought a modern distributor which had come off a CR engine, so I guess if anyone out there has a standard CR camshaft spare in good useable condition I would love to buy it if it’s not too pricey. Many thanks again for your input, it has helped me make my decision.

As regards the “perfect” followers, ( are they new? Or just lightly used ?) they are a monkey trap !

Because of your outlay you are very tempted to use them… but what happens if you have a failure when combined with your “yet  to be purchased new cam” ? The camshaft supplier will say “ you didn’t fit new followers from ourselves” it’s those that caused the failure… no warranty.

If you don’t want to rebuild twice… do it right once !

Fit new camshaft with new followers and use camshaft lube ALL bought from the same supplier, then you have a chance if disaster strikes.

Mick Richards

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7 minutes ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

As regards the “perfect” followers, ( are they new? Or just lightly used ?) they are a monkey trap !

Because of your outlay you are very tempted to use them… but what happens if you have a failure when combined with your “yet  to be purchased new cam” ? The camshaft supplier will say “ you didn’t fit new followers from ourselves” it’s those that caused the failure… no warranty.

If you don’t want to rebuild twice… do it right once !

Fit new camshaft with new followers and use camshaft lube ALL bought from the same supplier, then you have a chance if disaster strikes.

Mick Richards

Agreed.

Best to match cam & followers. 

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On 4/19/2022 at 8:41 AM, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

A look at the front journal, Are there grooves/rings machined in it? 

This is a quick id for standard cams that have not been reground.   

Image -  This cam has 3 rings and probably the number 311399  on it, which would have been fitted originally in a CF TR 6

 

see also

https://www.chriswitor.com/datasheets/camshaft_applications.pdf

 

image.thumb.png.f0fe89c8c0a1ad2008b3f3db32d6ce6e.png

I see the 311399 as a low power cam there are others that are as good as the 307689 or even better like BL's V578 also known as the S2 cam, which was sold in the USA. Or Newman's PH2 which is a copy of the S2/SAH 357. 

Bruce.

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Always buy cam and followers from the same vendor.

If not and you get a premature failure you will find that the cam supplier will blame the followers and vice versa. 

Never reuse followers with a new cam. If the same cam is going back then ok if perfect when you inspect but be sure the same followers go back with their previous lobes. Any doubts replace.

New cam blanks have been back on supply for a few years so don't waste money on a reground profile. 

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On 4/20/2022 at 1:22 PM, Andy Moltu said:

Always buy cam and followers from the same vendor.

If not and you get a premature failure you will find that the cam supplier will blame the followers and vice versa. 

Never reuse followers with a new cam. If the same cam is going back then ok if perfect when you inspect but be sure the same followers go back with their previous lobes. Any doubts replace.

New cam blanks have been back on supply for a few years so don't waste money on a reground profile. 

Newman has always used new blanks and the others did not! They went for regrinds but never reheated treated them so the lobs were soft as they had ground the hardness layer off. There were instances on this forum of these cams failing within 40 miles?? This is why I would still not use the likes of Piper or Kent!

Bruce.

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