123 ignition map?

[iani]

I have fitted a fresh 2.5l engine to my GT6, running with a PH3 cam & triple DCOEs. I tried using a Nodiz unit but have given up as despite setting it to using a 36:1 6 cyl trigger wheel in the software it would only fire on two banks. I have fitted the 123 dizzy I was previously running with my Mk1 2l engine, I'm just wondering if anyone has a 123 ignition map from a 2.5l setup so I can see if there are any differences. The car starts very easily, but no exhaust fitted yet so can't test it properly.

[Steves_TR6]

Hi Ian

before fitting the 123tune+ to my moderately tuned pi motor i measured the advance of the old distributor 

then i set the 123tune+ curve to match :

tickover 16deg

1000 17

1500 18

2000 22

2500 26

3000 28

3500 30

4000 36

i also checked that tdc actually lined up with the mark on the , new, pulley which it did

car runs great on these settings, so much so that i’ve never quite got around to the rolling road tune that i planned!

HTH

steve

[iani]

Thanks Steve, I just tried your settings but it wouldn't fire.

Back on the 2l curve and it fired straight away:

1000 0

1500 10

2500 24

4000 29

have just realised I need to blank off the vacuum advance though, no provision with DCOEs. Hopefully get the exhaust on tomorrow and have a play with it.

 

[Steves_TR6]

Interesting Ian

surely it should have some advance at 1000?

is your pulley aligned with tdc?, they do slip!

steve

[iani]

19 minutes ago, Steves_TR6 said:

Interesting Ian

surely it should have some advance at 1000?

is your pulley aligned with tdc?, they do slip!

steve

new pulley Steve, this is a freshly rebuilt engine, all new parts. The curve was set by Pete Burgess on this rolling road, was running very well. 0 at 1k is obviously plus the static figure

[Steves_TR6]

Ah, i’d need to check but my figures are probably total inc static.

[CK's TR6]

I know from Megajolt and Megasquirt manuals re EDIS that the missing tooth has to pass the sensor a specific number of degrees PRIOR to TDC #1. EDIS6 was, 60 degrees and EDIS4 was 90 degrees. Plus, you had to switch wires for the coil pack as the firing order scheme for the TR engine was different than that used in Ford architecture.  Firing on one bank sounds like the latter problem. If using wasted spark 1-6 pairing will work, but the subsequent ones won't (ie 2-5, 3-4) if it isn't set up for the TR  firing order. 

[iani]

3 hours ago, CK's TR6 said:

I know from Megajolt and Megasquirt manuals re EDIS that the missing tooth has to pass the sensor a specific number of degrees PRIOR to TDC #1. EDIS6 was, 60 degrees and EDIS4 was 90 degrees. Plus, you had to switch wires for the coil pack as the firing order scheme for the TR engine was different than that used in Ford architecture.  Firing on one bank sounds like the latter problem. If using wasted spark 1-6 pairing will work, but the subsequent ones won't (ie 2-5, 3-4) if it isn't set up for the TR  firing order. 

Yes, you are correct here, the Nodiz wiring isn't correct for wasted spark, I had gleamed that from the documentation, I had set my coil pack up as per their instructions but still only two banks firing. The missing tooth is ideally at 90 degrees BTDC but you can adjust +/- 50 degrees.

Edited April 17, 2022 by iani

[CK's TR6]

The 90 degrees looked like it was for the 4 cylinder.  Perhaps you got caught up in the teething issues associated with a new product, 6 cylinder applications.

[iani]

After a week's delay, I have now received confirmation that the Nodiz DOES NOT SUPPORT 6 CYL cars, they removed the feature but didn't update their documentation, they have removed the standard product from sale and the instructions have also gone from their support section, they are giving me a refund but that doesn't compensate in any way for the time I, and others, wasted trying to get this to work.

[Steves_TR6]

48 minutes ago, iani said:

After a week's delay, I have now received confirmation that the Nodiz DOES NOT SUPPORT 6 CYL cars, they removed the feature but didn't update their documentation, they have removed the standard product from sale and the instructions have also gone from their support section, they are giving me a refund but that doesn't compensate in any way for the time I, and others, wasted trying to get this to work.

Blimey! I nearly went with the Nodiz but glad now i settled On the easy option of the 123!

[stuart]

16 hours ago, iani said:

After a week's delay, I have now received confirmation that the Nodiz DOES NOT SUPPORT 6 CYL cars, they removed the feature but didn't update their documentation, they have removed the standard product from sale and the instructions have also gone from their support section, they are giving me a refund but that doesn't compensate in any way for the time I, and others, wasted trying to get this to work.

I seem to remember commenting that it didnt support six cylinder cars ages ago when I questioned what it was as I hadnt heard of it.

Stuart.

[iani]

13 hours ago, stuart said:

I seem to remember commenting that it didnt support six cylinder cars ages ago when I questioned what it was as I hadnt heard of it.

Stuart.

I asked the vendor back in 2019 and he confirmed support, their manual detailed support and the software had an option for. 6 cyl Bosch coil pack. They tell me that an update in the last year or so broke the capability and they didn’t prioritise fixing it. They have now released the “Gen 2” Nodiz and it is strictly 4 Cyl. They are refunding me as I didn’t buy in error, they had failed to update their published manual.

[CK's TR6]

Since you have a 36-1 wheel, could you just get a EDIS6 module and coil pack from Rockauto and run it with a Megajolt? I can send you a wiring diagram. I also have my drawings for the coil pack mount. When I sold kits, I had a tray that fitted above the pedals to mount the Megajolt.