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Windscreen Frame/door glass to hood frame adjustment.


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Hi Folks 

This seems to be a common issue after reading a few threads with these cars. The holy grail seems to be to achieve an equal gap from top to bottom. Some say the gaps from the factory were variable at best so I thought I'd been very careful when welding everything up to achieve something better. Alas I have an issue which is bugging me after an afternoon of fiddling about.

The glasses are original as far as I can tell - Triplex. The rest of the door/wing(s) panel gaps are spot on so I'm not altering them!

Both sides are parallel along their whole lengths as in the pictures below and the drivers is around 6-7mm top to bottom so would seem acceptable? The problem is the passenger side its less parallel. The gap is only 2mm top and 4mm bottom and is most likely at the top going to foul the hood frame. The frame bolts down along the front and the seal (Moss) makes a nice contact with the scuttle the dash top is original.

Question: There seems to be no agreement how big the gap should be I was aiming to have between 5-7mm. Is this an acceptable gap to aim for?

Attempted fixes tried so far;

Frame bracket removed and the captive nut removed and a slot made. Botton slot enlarged top hole in scuttle elongated - not really helped to open the gap I was hoping to get 4mm the bracket has moved forward the frame hasn't :angry:.

Question; When fitting the frame is it best to pull the front tabs down first or after the posts or in unison?

I understand from reading that the window glass can be tilted but the top slot/window aperture I repaired (cracked) and I might have been too free with the welding. The front edge of the glass is 1mm away from the door with the glass up to its stop (determined as correct by the scratch marks) I have 4-5mm at best at the rear.

Question; Would placing the glass 4-5 mm rearwards in its bottom channel likely increase the gap?  

Plan 

Fit the hood frame and before attempting a better fit.

Question If all fails is it possible to grind the glass edge to fit?

Any suggestions and help appreciated.

Thanks

Andy

IMG_2069.jpeg

IMG_2071.jpeg

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As long as the gap is even it doesnt really matter how big it is hence why Triumph offered two different thicknesses of the "P" seal that goes up the rear edge of the screen frame.

You really need to get the glass into the frame before too many adjustments. It needs to really be set by the side tube brackets as the tabs across the dash will just bend as theyre not that strong.

You can move the glass back a bit but you`ll need to shim the slides to suit else you find the front coming out of the channel.

The top of the door where they crack doesnt need to be very wide either.

You do need to be doing all this with the hood frame up as your bound to need to alter the fit of all the ally channels that take the top rubbers along the top of the glass and also be careful of the capping end catching the glass at the top front corner.

You cant grind down the glass edge safely though one of the guys that does my oily stuff had a pair of glasses made for his side windows on his 4a to suit his Surrey and they fit really well.

You do also need to trial fit your door rubbers at the same time as they can push the door/glass out as well.

Stuart.

 

 

Tonys TR6 316.jpg

Tonys TR6 317.jpg

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10 hours ago, stuart said:

As long as the gap is even it doesnt really matter how big it is hence why Triumph offered two different thicknesses of the "P" seal that goes up the rear edge of the screen frame.

You really need to get the glass into the frame before too many adjustments. It needs to really be set by the side tube brackets as the tabs across the dash will just bend as theyre not that strong.

You can move the glass back a bit but you`ll need to shim the slides to suit else you find the front coming out of the channel.

The top of the door where they crack doesnt need to be very wide either.

You do need to be doing all this with the hood frame up as your bound to need to alter the fit of all the ally channels that take the top rubbers along the top of the glass and also be careful of the capping end catching the glass at the top front corner.

You cant grind down the glass edge safely though one of the guys that does my oily stuff had a pair of glasses made for his side windows on his 4a to suit his Surrey and they fit really well.

You do also need to trial fit your door rubbers at the same time as they can push the door/glass out as well.

Stuart.

 

 

Tonys TR6 316.jpg

Tonys TR6 317.jpg

Hi Stuart 

Had a go tonight at adjusting the window channels after adjusting the frame a little and managed to get nice even gaps both sides albeit one side still slightly bigger. The door window slots with my welding here is a little more generous than yours so any more adjustment I guess is out as the car is painted now. My fault should have fitted the glass prior to painting as I didn't appreciate the impact it would have now at the time. Lesson learnt!

Good news is that the inner furlex seals press well along the length of the glass so should give a good seal. Take your point re fitting the soft top frame and windscreen before final adjustments, next job. Plan is then to remove the frame and refit with a good helping of the 3M none setting windscreen sealer beneath the bottom frame rubber and around where the stems pass through the scuttle. 

P seals; two sizes that's useful. I'm going to possibly need one of each size to see which works who supplies the best ones?

I guess the window glass on closing the hits the P seal, it deforms and the glass rides over it and then sits in the channel. Too thick and it bounces off and the door won't close? What's the best glue or will 3M trim adhesive tape suffice? Any pictures appreciated.

Hopefully I can keep the present glass without resort to custom glass which I bet ain't cheap!

As ever thanks for the advice. 

Andy

  

 

Edited by PodOne
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12 hours ago, PodOne said:

Hi Stuart 

Had a go tonight at adjusting the window channels after adjusting the frame a little and managed to get nice even gaps both sides albeit one side still slightly bigger. The door window slots with my welding here is a little more generous than yours so any more adjustment I guess is out as the car is painted now. My fault should have fitted the glass prior to painting as I didn't appreciate the impact it would have now at the time. Lesson learnt!

Good news is that the inner furlex seals press well along the length of the glass so should give a good seal. Take your point re fitting the soft top frame and windscreen before final adjustments, next job. Plan is then to remove the frame and refit with a good helping of the 3M none setting windscreen sealer beneath the bottom frame rubber and around where the stems pass through the scuttle. 

P seals; two sizes that's useful. I'm going to possibly need one of each size to see which works who supplies the best ones?

I guess the window glass on closing the hits the P seal, it deforms and the glass rides over it and then sits in the channel. Too thick and it bounces off and the door won't close? What's the best glue or will 3M trim adhesive tape suffice? Any pictures appreciated.

Hopefully I can keep the present glass without resort to custom glass which I bet ain't cheap!

As ever thanks for the advice. 

Andy

  

 

The glass should go into the channel thats formed between the door seal and the "P" as the "P" sits with the lump outermost, glue them on with the usual AF178  high temperature glue. Moss should do the two sizes. Note how it goes right down the top section of the "A" post to act as a bit of a drain channel.

Stuart.

 

Marks TR5 811.jpg

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11 hours ago, Kenrow said:

Thanks for the information, Stuart. From what you have written it sounds like one needs to fit all this up prior to painting the car. Is that the case?

Its the best way especially if theres been major works done to the shell .

Stuart.

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11 hours ago, stuart said:

The glass should go into the channel thats formed between the door seal and the "P" as the "P" sits with the lump outermost, glue them on with the usual AF178  high temperature glue. Moss should do the two sizes. Note how it goes right down the top section of the "A" post to act as a bit of a drain channel.

Stuart.

 

Marks TR5 811.jpg

Thanks for the info Stuart.

Moss are out of stock of the thin but James Paddock have both available. I wonder if the suppliers get their stock from Woolies.

Andy

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16 hours ago, PodOne said:

Thanks for the info Stuart.

Moss are out of stock of the thin but James Paddock have both available. I wonder if the suppliers get their stock from Woolies.

Andy

More likely from COH Baines https://coh-baines.co.uk/

Stuart.

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On 3/26/2022 at 1:31 PM, stuart said:

More likely from COH Baines https://coh-baines.co.uk/

Stuart.

Thanks Stuart plenty of options! One for the favourites.

Aluminium wind screen capping needs sealing, silicone or the non setting 3M Windscreen Sealer?

Andy

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11 hours ago, PodOne said:

Thanks Stuart plenty of options! One for the favourites.

Aluminium wind screen capping needs sealing, silicone or the non setting 3M Windscreen Sealer?

Andy

I use the 3M, dont forget to put a circle of it around each rivet hole too.

Stuart.

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12 hours ago, stuart said:

I use the 3M, dont forget to put a circle of it around each rivet hole too.

Stuart.

Thanks Stuart

I've got a new Pilkinton screen, screen gasket and finisher strip all from Moss and I notice it has a "join" does this sit central top or bottom of the screen? Going to attempt to fit it with a mate. Any tips other than soapy water or KY jelly, start from the bottom and work outwards and up the sides equally? Was considering using thick insulated copper wire as used for earth bonding pipe as my cord is only 2mm and I think it may risk tearing the gasket.

Andy 

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Hi Any,
2 mm is a bit thin indeed, I used a 4-5 mm nylon cord.  Have an overlap like 4” and start/ finish the rope at the bottom.
My new seal was rather long, so I taped it temporary to the glass to hold in place. We were with 2 persons and needed a lot of pushing with 2 hands (my son) from the outside, while the other (me) worked on the inside.

The seal went in with a soft nylon hammer.

Waldi

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11 hours ago, PodOne said:

Thanks Stuart

I've got a new Pilkinton screen, screen gasket and finisher strip all from Moss and I notice it has a "join" does this sit central top or bottom of the screen? Going to attempt to fit it with a mate. Any tips other than soapy water or KY jelly, start from the bottom and work outwards and up the sides equally? Was considering using thick insulated copper wire as used for earth bonding pipe as my cord is only 2mm and I think it may risk tearing the gasket.

Andy 

I dont think the electric cable would really be pliable enough. I use a 5mm cord and wax it with a candle, go all the way round with it and cross over at the bottom, use KY or Durex play lube, the join I think goes at the bottom though you should be able to tell by the way the rubber fits, you may find you think the rubber is a bit big but theyre supposed to be as they then fit better into the corners, the lower corners need the extra to make a good seal. Start by engaging it into the bottom and then work the cord out equally side to side, helps to have a second person keeping pressure on the screen in and down.

Stuart.

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10 hours ago, stuart said:

I dont think the electric cable would really be pliable enough. I use a 5mm cord and wax it with a candle, go all the way round with it and cross over at the bottom, use KY or Durex play lube, the join I think goes at the bottom though you should be able to tell by the way the rubber fits, you may find you think the rubber is a bit big but theyre supposed to be as they then fit better into the corners, the lower corners need the extra to make a good seal. Start by engaging it into the bottom and then work the cord out equally side to side, helps to have a second person keeping pressure on the screen in and down.

Stuart.

Thanks Stuart

Play lube that sounds like fun!

Fitted the gasket to the glass must say it's not a easy job! Made the mistake of using a bit of water pops on then off then on walk away curse and try again! Two hours later and checking in fact it was the correct screen after seeing "Spitfire MK1 sticker" it seems the code Pilkinton code 2221ACL fits the Spitfire, TR4,5 and 6 is correct. Moss code 906707OE (Pilk). 

In the end its on the screen and held on with gaffer tape on the corners so yes its a lot bigger than I was expecting. Will it shrink a little now it's on?

Worry now for me is will it stay on long enough to fit it I'm not convinced it will seems just too loose. 

Andy

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I had the same “battle” Andy, this is why I also used the tape (see above). In the end it fitted ok. Push the rubber in the corners during fitting, this is where it it needed. Think we needed 2 attempts, before it went in. Be carefull with the rope, do not pull it “at an 180 degree angle” (hope the wording makes sense), in fact, keep the angle in the rope as small as possible in areas where it resists most to avoid cutting the rubber.

Cheers,

Waldi

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Thanks Waldi 

Limbering up for a rubber tussle with the old play lube as we speak!

Andy

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Hi Stuart,

do you mean you need to install the chromed plastic strip in the rubber before fitting it in the frame?

I did that once the glass was installed in the frame, which was not an easy job.

Thanks,
Waldi

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7 minutes ago, Waldi said:

Hi Stuart,

do you mean you need to install the chromed plastic strip in the rubber before fitting it in the frame?

I did that once the glass was installed in the frame, which was not an easy job.

Thanks,
Waldi

Your method is correct it’s not just a trim and it’s easy to do when you know how.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thought I'd just update this thread to hopefully save others an issue.

After a two man 5 hour mega tussle I can confirm the Pilkington screen from Moss doesn't fit its a mile out in the corners compared to the OEM screen and will be returned to Moss for a refund.

The Moss screen rubber however is fine and in an effort to confirm the screen was the issue the original OEM screen was fitted in literally 10 mins. Perfect fit. If it wasn't scratched it would be staying put!

So who supplies a screen that is truly the right shape?

Andy

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16 hours ago, PodOne said:

Thought I'd just update this thread to hopefully save others an issue.

After a two man 5 hour mega tussle I can confirm the Pilkington screen from Moss doesn't fit its a mile out in the corners compared to the OEM screen and will be returned to Moss for a refund.

The Moss screen rubber however is fine and in an effort to confirm the screen was the issue the original OEM screen was fitted in literally 10 mins. Perfect fit. If it wasn't scratched it would be staying put!

So who supplies a screen that is truly the right shape?

Andy

You could try swapping it for the cheap one that Moss do instead.

Stuart.

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7 hours ago, stuart said:

You could try swapping it for the cheap one that Moss do instead.

Stuart.

Thanks Stuart. I think that's going to be the best bet just hope they are a better fit!

7 hours ago, Macleesh said:

Surprised by this, I understood Pilkington to have absorbed Triplex at some stage and are effectively OEM suppliers? 

Thats why I went for the Pilkington in the first place I thought it would offer the best OEM fit just shows that sometimes paying more isn't the answer either. Expect a little bit of variation but you would have to see it to believe how much it was out just laying in the aperture with the gasket on when compared to the old screen with the gasket on it was night and day. Just wish I'd taken a picture but we were so p....d off we forgot.

The Pilkington screen code 2221ACL is listed as fitting the Spitfire, TR4,5 and 6. Again it makes we wonder if Pilkington have QA'd the screen or made sure the form/buck is the correct shape. Or were the original OEM screens slightly different for both the Spitfire and the TR's and the current offering a compromise which clearly doesn't fit.

Just a final thought the frame came with the screen fitted and attached to the car. Is it possible they both came from another triumph model? I thought rightly or wrongly that the frames were interchangeable between Spitfire, GT6 and TR4,5 and 6 and hence the same screen.

Overall I think its sadly just another poor fitting part or the screen has being wrongly coded.

I'll update once I have another cheap screen to fit.

Andy

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15 hours ago, PodOne said:

Thanks Stuart. I think that's going to be the best bet just hope they are a better fit!

Thats why I went for the Pilkington in the first place I thought it would offer the best OEM fit just shows that sometimes paying more isn't the answer either. Expect a little bit of variation but you would have to see it to believe how much it was out just laying in the aperture with the gasket on when compared to the old screen with the gasket on it was night and day. Just wish I'd taken a picture but we were so p....d off we forgot.

The Pilkington screen code 2221ACL is listed as fitting the Spitfire, TR4,5 and 6. Again it makes we wonder if Pilkington have QA'd the screen or made sure the form/buck is the correct shape. Or were the original OEM screens slightly different for both the Spitfire and the TR's and the current offering a compromise which clearly doesn't fit.

Just a final thought the frame came with the screen fitted and attached to the car. Is it possible they both came from another triumph model? I thought rightly or wrongly that the frames were interchangeable between Spitfire, GT6 and TR4,5 and 6 and hence the same screen.

Overall I think its sadly just another poor fitting part or the screen has being wrongly coded.

I'll update once I have another cheap screen to fit.

Andy

Spit frames are the same they just have slightly different arrangements for sun visors.

Stuart.

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  • PodOne changed the title to Windscreen Frame/door glass to hood frame adjustment.

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