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Alloy front brake caliper for TR4A?


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Is there an alloy caliper that will bolt onto the stock 4A...ie with the solid rotor.

I know about the Toyota 4 piston conversion using the ventilated [wider] Toyota Cressida rotor.

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If I remember correctly the Toyota pistons have a smaller surface than the original Girling calipers,

--> p x A = give less force on the brake pads --> brake worse than the TR original setting.

 

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Here are the BR type that are for TR3-4.  Using solid disc.  Copy of the original Girling alloy racing caliper.
Will fit later cars mounting brackets but I do not know about the issue of the disc diameter.   
https://crosthwaiteandgardiner.com/girling-br-lh-brake-caliper-assembly-2

image.jpeg.40b7af19e1882f6149ad9927862f20e8.jpeg

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Our standard calipers work very well if in good condition [ not stiff or part seized ]  Pads make the big change brakes

i have 4pot willwood set up with vented discs on one car and to be honest no amazing difference .  

Roy

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Why try and re-invent the wheel? Standard calipers are perfectly good enough for all road uses and a fair bit of competition use as well.

Stuart.

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23 minutes ago, stuart said:

Why try and re-invent the wheel? Standard calipers are perfectly good enough for all road uses and a fair bit of competition use as well.

Stuart.

Hope?

btw: +1 from me

Edited by Z320
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The PO had installed the ‘93 Toyota four piston calipers on my car. I was going to put Triumph ones back on, but the Toyota ones work great. Plus I can get pads at my local parts store (and cheaper). The one thing I did change was getting braided brake lines specifically for this conversion from TS Imported Automotive.

Jim

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If the vented disc is the issue (not braking better, "only" better cooling)

there is a solution with some modifications on the Girling calipers out there.

 

Edited by Z320
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The spacers for converting the standard callipers to vented are readily available as they were fitted to contemporary Fords.

However the vented discs are the issue.

They were sold as a kit by many of the TR suppliers a few years ago with what appeared to be an ECB made disc and green stuff pads.  However the original fitment of the discs is unclear. When I contacted ECB they claimed not to have supplied them.  Not sure if I got the village idiot or whether that the discs in The ECB bot genuinely weren’t theirs.

 

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On 3/2/2022 at 6:18 AM, Tr4aJim said:

The PO had installed the ‘93 Toyota four piston calipers on my car. I was going to put Triumph ones back on, but the Toyota ones work great. Plus I can get pads at my local parts store (and cheaper). The one thing I did change was getting braided brake lines specifically for this conversion from TS Imported Automotive.

Jim

Jim...are you running the original TR solid rotors with the Toyota calipers.

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I believe they are. As I said, the PO did the caliper conversion, but the rotors appear stock to me.

This article indicates that the stock TR4,4A, 250, and 6 rotors will work. However the dust shields need a small modification.
https://vintagetriumphregister.org/brake-conversion/

A few years ago I totally rebuilt the front suspension, and I wanted to replace the modified front brake lines/rubber hoses. So I purchased bespoke braided lines from TS Imported Automotive (bottom of the Brake section). They were also able to supply the correct caliper mounting bolts which I also decided to replace.

https://www.tsimportedautomotive.com/tr3_tr4a.html 

Jim

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1984 Toyota Hilux (petrol) suit the original solid discs. The mounting holes are metric but you can get caliper mounting bolts from the later TR6 which have the unf threads but metric shoulders to suit. I have used the std Hilux pads which are great on my road car. There are plenty long and very steep roads behind the Gold Coast and i have never suffered the brake squeal from before. Used the Morgan Plus 8 rear cylinders for better front/rear balance.

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6 hours ago, peter clarke said:

. Used the Morgan Plus 8 rear cylinders for better front/rear balance.

Well done for actually pointing out what most people forget that you need to maintain the brake balance, its no good just fitting bigger brakes on the front if you dont as a front wheel skid isnt nice.

Stuart.

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Hi,

in my opinion the Triumph engineers valued the limited space between hub and wheel rim as good as possible.

Also in my opinion there is no suitable other calipers possible to fit there with a noticeable better brake power.

Browsing the web I found several times the same repair sets for this Toyota models:

Hilux, diesel and petrol, 1979 - 1989, and Landcruiser diesel and petrol, 1980 - 1990.

Our TR calipers use each 2 braking pistons d = 54 mm

The Toyotas calipers use 2 pistons d = 42.82 mm and 2 smaller with d = 33,93 mm.

The hydraulic benfit of the Toyota calipers, and the more brake power, you can calculate, it is + 2,3% 

Other 4 piston calipers use d = 38 mm pistons, the "benefit" is - 1%

I mainly agree with this article

More durable the brakes will be with the Toyota calipers and vented brake discs,

more braking power you only get with more hydraulic pressure.

Ciao, Marco

Edited by Z320
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On 3/3/2022 at 5:29 PM, roy53 said:

re the vented discs ,  in my kit i believe to be mondeo

But which one?

Been through brake catalogue but couldn’t figure out the exact one. Had a kit fitted to mine for years. At one stage there was slight warping of one of the discs, which prompt the hunt. Fortunately this seems to have settled. Bu the discs won’t last forever, and presumably others who fitted the kits back in the day must be having the same thoughts.

The nearest I could find were Corrado 32v discs but significant machining would be needed.

 

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On 3/2/2022 at 7:54 PM, Andy Moltu said:

The spacers for converting the standard callipers to vented are readily available as they were fitted to contemporary Fords.

However the vented discs are the issue.

They were sold as a kit by many of the TR suppliers a few years ago with what appeared to be an ECB made disc and green stuff pads.  However the original fitment of the discs is unclear. When I contacted ECB they claimed not to have supplied them.  Not sure if I got the village idiot or whether that the discs in The ECB bot genuinely weren’t theirs.

 

I’ve been involved in a „find a suitable discs“ project some time ago.

One of us uses the ECB set on his TR6 and I remember the discs are new only 20 mm „solid“?

I wondered why ECB made them that slim like you get no other vented brake discs.....

So it could be true the set has been Green stuff pads (in the best case) and namless discs.

I remember vented discs start with 22 mm, a lot of models are 24 mm solid and looking on my stored set this is fine!

We found no suitable spacers on the market, finally the leader of the project initiated some sets of laser cut spacers.

He is here on the forum but I guess busy with another car badge.

Ciao, Marco

Edited by Z320
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Suitable vented discs are 24mm thick. The EBC Kit in the early days had 20 mm discs. They are no longer sold, so anyone needing spare discs are no longer served. We found  other 24mm discs and I had the spacers machined. So far about 13 Kits sold. Marco has one of them. 

Edited by JochemsTR
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When I rebuilt the 4A I had the brakes rebuilt with vented discs from a Peugeot machined to 21mm. The TR calipers had spacers installed to suit. I was never very happy with them as the brake company used the original bolts despite the greater thickness. I bought the Goodparts Willwood conversion with 1.62” pistons which give about 15% more piston area. The car has a TR6 dual circuit booster. This also reduced the unsprung weight by 2kg per wheel. 
 

This was also part of an obsession to reduce the weight of the car rather than having to reduce my own weight! An alloy water pump and housing, alternator, geared starter, electric fan, lighter horns and the brakes have taken about 40lb off the car or roughly the equivalent of gaining 2hp. Would have been cheaper and better for my health for me to lose the weight. 

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