GaryBZ Posted February 15, 2022 Report Share Posted February 15, 2022 I have been doing some work on my TR4a and decided to fit solid clamps to the steering rack. Whilst trying to fit them I have encountered a problem. When the blocks are fitted the steering rack touches the fan hub extension. Taking a closer look it appears that the blocks don’t fit particularly well onto the painted rack. This is due to a thick layer of paint on the rack. I can remove the paint, but I’m guessing that the clearance will be minimal, if at all, once I have done this. I have no chance of removing the fan belt (original style) without removing the fan hub extension either. There are a couple of things I could do, fit thick spacers under the front engine mounts, or machine some material off the bottom of the new steering rack clamps. Has anyone experienced a similar problem? It just looks like the engine is too low. I have about 4mm of screw thread above the locking nut on the engine mounts, so I could fit a 3-4mm spacer either side. Another question. Is it standard practice to remove the fan hub extension when changing the fan belt? Gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 15, 2022 Report Share Posted February 15, 2022 Hi Gary, almost certainly your rubber engine mounts have gone soft. Replace the mounts with new ones and if you feel it is required add the extra thick washer. Some members think that the standard (square) mount is not very good and use the earlier round mount. Have a look at these. They do use an M8 stud but it will fit. www.johnrichardssurplus.co.uk You could also consider fitting an electric rad fan and remove the extension. Also fitting the thin belt mod. When you get it sorted and if you retain the thick belt consider fitting a spare belt insitu so that it can be fitted without lacing it under the extension. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GaryBZ Posted February 15, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2022 Thanks Roger. I have just read one of your old posts where you gave the thickness of a new mount. It was 35mm. I have put a tape measure on mine and they are around 32mm, which confirms your thoughts that the rubber has probably gone soft. I like the idea of new mounts and a few extra mm with a thick washer. This will definitely sort the problem and I guess the fan belt issue is only a problem when it needs changing. I have always tried to keep the car standard. I bought a complete set of upgrade parts several years ago and still have them in the loft. Electric fan, alternator, pulleys, brackets, new lights….the whole shooting match. I bottled it and put them away for another day. Perhaps I should pull the Kenlowe fan out of its box and save myself some future hassle. I have the stainless steel radiator pipe with the thermostat mount and all the other bits I need. I still have the radiator out if the car as well. I bet the car runs a lot smoother without that out of balance metal fan. Ummm !! Thanks again ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GaryBZ Posted February 15, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2022 Roger, you’ve got me thinking now. Do you think I would get away with just fitting the Kelowe fan and keeping my dynamo? I’m I bit concerned that I could fix one problem and create another. Typically the fan will come on when the car isn’t moving that fast, which could be a problem for the dynamo. Should I bite the bullet and fit the alternator as well ? Gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 15, 2022 Report Share Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) Hi Gary, that's a nice clean car. No harm in keeping it original - TRiumph did well with the design. I wouldn't bother with the Kenlow - plenty of better ones. Do consider tying a spare fan belt in place when you put it all back together Roger Edited February 15, 2022 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GaryBZ Posted February 15, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2022 Yeah! You may remember that I started a recommission, after several years lay up, several weeks ago. Once I started I got carried away. The cooling system blockage is now sorted and apart from the engine mount hiccup it’s almost ready for the road again. Incidentally, I sent my fuel pump off to David Davies, who did a great job of reviving it for me. I will keep things standard and fit the new mounts. I can always go back to the parts in the loft at some other point. Never had a problem with the dynamo. Only issue has been the headlamps, which are like a pair of candles. Perhaps there is an LED upgrade out there. I haven’t checked for years. The cable tied fan belt is a great idea. I will give that a go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 15, 2022 Report Share Posted February 15, 2022 Hi Gary, The LED headlights are a great asset when running a dynamo. Significant current reduction Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
keith1948 Posted February 15, 2022 Report Share Posted February 15, 2022 Hello Gary Just replaced my engine mounts. The newer ones are about 32mm deep compared to about 38mm for those you could get about 30 years ago. The square ones are a bit deeper than the round ones. I cut the end washers off the old round mountings and knocked out the threaded rods to make 2 spacers for each side. The centre disc I cut off the old mount and made another that I could also slot in. This raised the front of the engine enough so a thick fan belt could fit between the fan extension and steering. Previously I kept a spare clipped in place to avoid having to raise the engine by the roadside. I then used the rubber bits off one old mount as packing under the radiator to raise that up. I checked clearance between top of radiator and bonnet and top of thermostat elbow and bonnet using a lump of putty. It was about 3/4 to 1 inch so ok. Instead of the metal 4A fan I use the plastic multi bladed TR5 fan that was on the car when I got it 30 odd years ago. Works fine. Keith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted February 15, 2022 Report Share Posted February 15, 2022 2 hours ago, GaryBZ said: Roger, you’ve got me thinking now. Do you think I would get away with just fitting the Kelowe fan and keeping my dynamo? I’m I bit concerned that I could fix one problem and create another. Typically the fan will come on when the car isn’t moving that fast, which could be a problem for the dynamo. Should I bite the bullet and fit the alternator as well ? Gary Gary, I run a Kenlowe fan and still have a dynamo. The fan isn't on for long, even in traffic, and the battery copes fine. I did fit LED headlamps though, that's worth doing for the extra light output compared to the original sealed beams, as well as reducing the load on the battery and dynamo. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GaryBZ Posted February 15, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2022 Thanks Guys. I have noticed that the fan extension is marked above the steering rack, so this issue has been with the car for a while. I just haven’t noticed it. The mounts are in surprisingly good condition, so I’m starting to think that the first step should be washers. I have just ordered 6pcs stainless steel penny washers 50mm OD x 10mm ID x 1.5mm thick. I will slot them so they can be fitted without lifting the engine too much. The rigid steering mounts highlighted the problem as these are definitely moving the rack up slightly. I bought the mounts from TRGB. After reading up I found that they just rely on clamping force to hold the rack in place rather than others that have an extended lower piece that butts up to the flanges on the rack. Not sure if I should send them back? Actually, there wasn’t much wrong with the original set up. Both rubber blocks were as good as new and they have been on the car for at least 25 years. Might just raise the engine and stick with the original set up. I will upgrade the lights. I believe I will need to change the relay if I upgrade the indicator lights. Is that correct? The rest are just straight swap outs ? What about the rheostat for the dash lights? I guess that’s a problem? On a general note, it’s great to get instant advice through the forum. I hadn’t heard about the steering rack/fan extension problem before and I was concerned that something had gone seriously wrong. I’m now relaxed in the knowledge that it’s all been done before. Gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted February 15, 2022 Report Share Posted February 15, 2022 If you go for LED indicator bulbs then you will need an LED compatible flasher unit like this one: https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/indicator-relays-electronic/products/12v-electronic-indicator-flasher-relay-classic-car-with-oe-click-x-l-p-2-3-pin I would recommend the same store for the bulbs as well. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted February 16, 2022 Report Share Posted February 16, 2022 8 hours ago, GaryBZ said: I will upgrade the lights. I believe I will need to change the relay if I upgrade the indicator lights. Is that correct? The rest are just straight swap outs ? What about the rheostat for the dash lights? I guess that’s a problem? Gary Leave the dash lights alone then you don`t need to worry about an electronic dimmer. Anyway the warm glow from the original dash lights is much better than the harsh light the led`s gives out. +1 for led tail lights and indicators though, much brighter, and front sidelights are almost daylight running lights with led`s fitted. Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted February 16, 2022 Report Share Posted February 16, 2022 Something else to check; is there any play in the fan extension? Sometimes the crankshaft bolt is not tightened enough, allowing the extension to wobble on the shaft and contact the rack. Mine had worn a neat groove around the extension! Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 16, 2022 Report Share Posted February 16, 2022 I would send those solid rack mounts back as they are dangerous and dont hold the rack in the correct position, the original rubber mounts when fitted correctly(See workshop manual for correct setting technique) work fine and dont transmit vibration up through the column. The Landrover mounts that I have fitted to mine actually lift the engine a bit in comparison to the originals that served well for 25 yrs. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4aJim Posted February 16, 2022 Report Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) I fitted the Land Rover mounts in my TR4A (thanks Roger). I also added washers to the mounts. I didn’t have a clearance issue with the fan extension per se, but I wanted to raise the front of the engine enough to get the fan belt off/on between the rack and the crank pulley. BTW I have seen pictures where the rack has worn substantial notches into the fan extensions, from the front of the engine lowering over time. Jim PS - like this: Edited February 16, 2022 by Tr4aJim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted February 16, 2022 Report Share Posted February 16, 2022 Ouch, that's a bad one! Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted February 16, 2022 Report Share Posted February 16, 2022 Hi, I assume the owner must have done this before? Nobody can be so deaf to the noise and blind to the dust from grinded cast iron. Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 16, 2022 Report Share Posted February 16, 2022 Just goes to show how soft the extension piece is! Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted February 16, 2022 Report Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) I had a water pump pulley wobbling and grinding for a short distance on the water pump housing, both cast iron. The dust from grinded cast iron under the bonnet was very impressive! The owner must be blind not realizing this - indeed, why not? Edited February 16, 2022 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted February 16, 2022 Report Share Posted February 16, 2022 A couple of decades ago they were just old bangers, as long as they ran, why lift the bonnet! Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4aJim Posted February 16, 2022 Report Share Posted February 16, 2022 (edited) You’re right Pete. There was a time these cars were cheap “disposable” transportation. Especially to cash strapped college students. Probably so many holes in the exhaust, they couldn’t hear a thing! Jim Edited February 16, 2022 by Tr4aJim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GaryBZ Posted February 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2022 Jim, thanks that’s amazing. Can’t believe it got that bad. That must have been miles of driving. Half of the steering rack is gone. Good idea about the dash lights. I will just change the external stuff. I’m going to keep the alternator as well. I bought the car from a guy who owned it since is was 3 months old and he told me that nearly all of the parts were original. He used to rebuild things instead of replacing them. That’s why I want to keep it as original as I can. I have double checked the fan extension. It’s all very solid. I will send the rigid mounts back and refit the original mounts. The steering rack just misses the fan extension when the mounts are tightened up. Raising the engine up 4-5mm will be enough to ensure I don’t have any clashes. Once we are back on the road I will monitor how the engine mounts are doing and replace them with LR ones when needed. I think it might have been Roger who said don’t try and fix something that it’s broken. I guess that’s the way forward now for me. I will take his advice and strap a spare fan belt over the fan extension before it’s all done, if it’s possible. Gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GaryBZ Posted February 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2022 I have been reading the original 1965 service manual again. It actually says that there should be 1/8th inch clearance between the fan extension and the steering rack. That’s why there is no chance of fitting a new belt without removing the extension, or raising the engine. I managed to get the rack back in from the top. It just about sneaks under the fan extension with a few paint chips here and there. if you look carefully you can just see a rub mark on the extension. It isn’t deep and I didn’t notice the adjoining mark or the rack. I think the casting is slightly out of true, hence the rub on one side. That’s probably why they balanced the fans at the factory. Gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GaryBZ Posted February 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 Think I have the engine height sort. Just put some slots in the 50mm penny washer. Three washer are 5mm. Ideal, I think. Gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4aJim Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 Gary, that’s what I did on mine. I put two on per side and in conjunction with the Land Rover engine mounts, it gave just enough room to remove/install the belt. BTW - I also had installed a narrow belt kit, and the narrow belt I’m using has a slightly narrower profile than the wide belt. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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