Brake...BRAKE!!!

[CP26309]

Almost embarrassed to admit this...My TR's brakes are pretty poor by todays cars standards! It's a bit of a wake up call after driving it and then getting back in my modern Honda how my TR slows down okay but you have to 'plan' your braking! It always passed the MOT okay last Readings were 245 front, 100 rear. But I never trust it's brakes to drive too close to vehicles ahead theses days! Over recent years I have replaced pretty much everything on the brakes front and rear...and I bleed them quite often, but no improvement! The last Pads were fitted according to my History file 5,000 miles ago in 9/1999 (It doesn't go out to play often!) Those pads were from my local Car Accessory Shop and were just matched to an outline pattern in their brake pad book. They're not a very snug fit in the calipers and clonk in the calipers when I brake reversing and again when they resettle the first time I brake going forwards! Anyway in my garage cupboard I have just found a new box of 'EBC Sport Formula pads, Ceramic/Kevlar Fiber'. They are GREEN in colour ! Are these any good?  

[stuart]

2 minutes ago, CP26309 said:

Almost embarrassed to admit this...My TR's brakes are pretty poor by todays cars standards! It's a bit of a wake up call after driving it and then getting back in my modern Honda how my TR slows down okay but you have to 'plan' your braking! It always passed the MOT okay last Readings were 245 front, 100 rear. But I never trust it's brakes to drive too close to vehicles ahead theses days! Over recent years I have replaced pretty much everything on the brakes front and rear...and I bleed them quite often, but no improvement! The last Pads were fitted according to my History file 5,000 miles ago in 9/1999 (It doesn't go out to play often!) Those pads were from my local Car Accessory Shop and were just matched to an outline pattern in their brake pad book. They're not a very snug fit in the calipers and clonk in the calipers when I brake reversing and again when they resettle the first time I brake going forwards! Anyway in my garage cupboard I have just found a new box of 'EBC Sport Formula pads, Ceramic/Kevlar Fiber'. They are GREEN in colour ! Are these any good?  

In a word....... No....theyre wooden, Im lucky to still be running old stock Ferodo asbestos pads and theyre great. Hawk pads are very good though expensive. Or try Mintex.

Stuart.

[Drewmotty]

I guess that the test is can you lock up the front wheels? I can on my TRs but it takes a good stamp on the pedal. I’m not a great lover of an overly light brake pedal on cars without ABS as it’s too easily to lock everything up if something does catch you out. 
We have Greenstuff pads on a T4 van and they’re ok. I have Mintex Classic on the TR4 and 1144 on the TR3  The 1144s are great but tend to squeal on occasion. The Classics are ok and a reasonable price  

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Drewmotty

[RogerH]

I have found that the Ferodo  FDS167/FER167 work very well. The pin holes need to be drilled to round.

 

Roger

[silverfox4]

Roger, I too have a similar experience with brakes. Last winter I fitted new discs, Hawke HPS pads, master cylinder, 7/8" Morgan rear cylinders and fresh DOT 4, with a best effort at bedding in. and did not find any appreciable improvement.

I am now thinking that the caliper pistons might be sticking(or possibly the hoses are constricting in some way) - the calipers were last rebuilt 20 years ago with new hoses and now really can only assume that the pistons have not seen movement given that there has been full pad thickness since then, probably due to low mileage covered.

This spring I plan to check the piston movement. All posts I read suggest that one should be able to lock the front brakes, so I follow your progress and thoughts with interest.

Cheers

Alf

[Waldi]

I recommend fitting the Volvo servo.

It gave great improvement on my (LHD PI, but recently someone fitted it on a RHD TR too, there is a thread somewhere.

I too have the EBC green-stuff pads fitted during my rebuild, which many on here do not find good, but I have no comparison. I have not fitted other pads yet (as recommended by Stuart and others), so that may give additional improvement.

Waldi

[Rob Y]

2 hours ago, Waldi said:

I recommend fitting the Volvo servo.

It gave great improvement on my (LHD PI, but recently someone fitted it on a RHD TR too, there is a thread somewhere.

I too have the EBC green-stuff pads fitted during my rebuild, which many on here do not find good, but I have no comparison. I have not fitted other pads yet (as recommended by Stuart and others), so that may give additional improvement.

Waldi

I’m hoping this is the way to go. After reading the thread mentioned I have just received my Volvo servo and had the adaptor made, should be fitting it soon. From reports of others who have done this it seems the best way to improve the brakes on the 6 and not expensive either!

Rob

[Drewmotty]

I may be being pedantic here but a servo won’t improve the braking it will only reduce the pedal effort giving the impression of improved braking. 

[Rob Y]

25 minutes ago, Drewmotty said:

I may be being pedantic here but a servo won’t improve the braking it will only reduce the pedal effort giving the impression of improved braking. 

I would have thought with the improved servo you get the same braking with less effort, but for the same effort you get better braking. That’s what has been reported with this modification.

[John L]

Mintex 1144's for me.

[barkerwilliams]

+1   Mintex 1144 pads 

[TRTOM2498PI]

On 1/29/2022 at 3:40 PM, CP26309 said:

Almost embarrassed to admit this...My TR's brakes are pretty poor by todays cars standards! It's a bit of a wake up call after driving it and then getting back in my modern Honda how my TR slows down okay but you have to 'plan' your braking! It always passed the MOT okay last Readings were 245 front, 100 rear. But I never trust it's brakes to drive too close to vehicles ahead theses days! Over recent years I have replaced pretty much everything on the brakes front and rear...and I bleed them quite often, but no improvement! The last Pads were fitted according to my History file 5,000 miles ago in 9/1999 (It doesn't go out to play often!) Those pads were from my local Car Accessory Shop and were just matched to an outline pattern in their brake pad book. They're not a very snug fit in the calipers and clonk in the calipers when I brake reversing and again when they resettle the first time I brake going forwards! Anyway in my garage cupboard I have just found a new box of 'EBC Sport Formula pads, Ceramic/Kevlar Fiber'. They are GREEN in colour ! Are these any good?  

How old is your brake servo ?

Years ago when I ran standard brake calipers, I found Green EBC pads were very effective. Plenty of bite.  1144 Mintex are also good.

I also use competition rear brake linings these days also, and whilst circa £100 for a set, you can skid the back wheels if applied with anger at walking pace via the handbrake. I do appreciate all of the braking is on the front, but it all contributes to effective braking.

 

Cheers.

[Tim D.]

Mintex are good.. used them on 10 CR and some track days.. worked great but do tend to squeel at times.

Tim

[Z320]

Hi,

I used the green EBCs years ago, last year a nameless set from Rimmer and later a set Mintex 1144.

What I missed was the WOW effect, this is why I will drive the Mintex 1144 further until June 2022 and than swap to the nameless set again.

[RogerH]

For a good few years I was very happy with the EBC Green Stuff.

But then about 5 years ago my new EBC Green stuff were awful. Tey had no bite, nothing. I think the term is wooden.

I then fitted the Ferodo FDS167 on the recommendation  of Tim Hunt on here and they were back to what they should have been. Very nice feel and can lock the wheels if you need to.

https://www.burtonpower.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=FDS167

They do an upgraded version FDS167R - I think this is a much sportier version R=££££

 

What happened to the Green Stuff. Did they change the composition etc.

 

Roger

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

On 1/29/2022 at 3:45 PM, stuart said:

In a word....... No....theyre wooden, Im lucky to still be running old stock Ferodo asbestos pads and theyre great. Hawk pads are very good though expensive. Or try Mintex.

Stuart.

Like Stuart I have/seek out NOS Girling pads.  GDB525 is the 1/4" pin type and GDB568 is the later 3/16" pin type.

Here you go at £30.00 a box for the early type.  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115098164028?hash=item1acc629b3c:g:DyYAAOSwmhdhk-xS

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[Z320]

I tested a set of NOS asbetos some time ago, age? - Not known. This worked only for 500km.

Finally they squeked VERY loud, did not brake at all and I had problems to get home.

Out again they looked like a grave stone made of polished granite and one had a crack.

The best friction materials loose quality by the years.

[Andy Moltu]

Over the years used original asbestos pads when they were still in supply, Hawke, Greenstuff and Mintex 1144.

The originals were fine but I have no desire to expose mayself or anyone to asbestos without good reason.

The Hawkes were good but expensive, First prod a bit slugging but once slightly warm absolutely fine. 

Mintex 1144, good bite and nearly as good fade resistance as the Hawkes.

As for the Greenstuff - no bite and no better when warmed.

Personally I have 1144s in the 4A and the 6 because, given the minimal performance difference to the Hawkes price wins it. Search on MGB633 1144 - they are a regular fit fo the Ford calipers so multiple suppliers. If you have the larger pins in your calipers, you may need to enlarge the holes, but that's a couple of minutes with a drill.

 

[Mike C]

4 hours ago, Andy Moltu said:

Over the years used original asbestos pads when they were still in supply, Hawke, Greenstuff and Mintex 1144.

The originals were fine but I have no desire to expose mayself or anyone to asbestos without good reason.

The Hawkes were good but expensive, First prod a bit slugging but once slightly warm absolutely fine. 

Mintex 1144, good bite and nearly as good fade resistance as the Hawkes.

As for the Greenstuff - no bite and no better when warmed.

Personally I have 1144s in the 4A and the 6 because, given the minimal performance difference to the Hawkes price wins it. Search on MGB633 1144 - they are a regular fit fo the Ford calipers so multiple suppliers. If you have the larger pins in your calipers, you may need to enlarge the holes, but that's a couple of minutes with a drill.

 

A friend of mine recently died from mesothelioma due to asbestos exposure when he was a teenager in the late 1960's, I found Z320's comment "like a grave stone made of polished granite" quite appropriate.

[CK's TR6]

Like all things, what are your goals and how much do you want to spend? Usually the last 10-20% is 100% more $$ or more. I am on one end of the spectrum and have clearly stated my goals and my solution. And been lambasted that I didn't use proper technique. Having said that, make sure the rear brakes are contributing to the cause by proper adjustment, (three clicks up of the parking brake handle is all you should have). Then, EBC yellow pads have worked wonders on 3 other cars I own. That's pretty cheap and maybe all you want. All weather radials will grip like all weather tires. I suggest the stickiest tire for the weather conditions you predominately drive your TR in (temp and rain). Then dial your inner Jackie Stewart back when in less than ideal conditions. 

[CP26309]

Thank you all for your thoughts and recommendations...I get back to you here when I've changed them. Gotta measure me pins!