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Brake /Clutch Master cylinder


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Hi All and Happy New Year to everyone.

Could someone advise the level the brake fluid should be in the master cylinder. Brakes and clutch have been bled but fluid is coming out of the top (and has damaged the paint work- very annoying). A friend said that fluid should be about 1 to 1 1/2 inches from top to allow expansion. I can't find any level indicator on the cylinder. I have a booster also.

Your thoughts appreciated

Regards

Brian

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Hi Brian. You dont say if it's TR2 or later (Lockheed or Girling)  with girling the problem is nearly always the rubber seal in the cap not doing it's job.

I made a thicker than usual seal out of soft rubber sheet, & mine does not now leak fluid. As for level, around the base of the thread would be about right.

Bob

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If it is a Girling single reservoir (cocoa tin) that supplies both clutch and brake, with a screwed lid that is leaking I recommend the Moss cap seal that stops outward splashing but let’s air in as required.

Stolen design from a motor bike hydraulic m/c I expect.  Last thing a 2 wheel loony wants is brake fluid on their glove.

https://mossmotors.com/seal-filler-cap-1?assoc=135396

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If you look into the cylinder (tin can) you will see the clutch reservoir tube set off to one side, as long as the fluid is about 1/2" above that then thats sufficient.

Stuart.

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My tin can is too close to the bonnet and there is a vibration. I have tried hard to get a tight bend on the supply pipes but it is no help. My new project is to cut 3/4" off the top of the can and have the lid welded back on. The inside clutch supply will have to be made shorter as well. I did try and tighten the lid and seal but damaged it so it must be time to start again.

I do not have any leaks and all the seals are new, thanks to Past Parts. Can this alteration be dangerous ??

Thanks or any advice Richard & B

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Hi Richard,

 that sounds very adventurous.

Fistly how tight are the bends on the pipes coming in from underneath.  The Moss WebCat shows some but do not look tight to me. How are yours

in comparison  https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/brake-system/brake-controls-hydraulics/brake-master-cylinder-tr2-4a-1953-67.html

If I was doing your cutting and 'welding' I would make a plan.  Thin before chopping it about.

The top looks difficult to play with. So I would cut below the top by about 3/4".

Then I would consider swaging the bottom section to make it a bigger diameter so the top can sit into it.

Tin both parts and sweat them together

 

Roger

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Think I would go for braided hoses and the flatter banjo connections.  To reduce the height ?
May be take the opportunity for separate reservoirs?

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40 minutes ago, Hamish said:

Think I would go for braided hoses and the flatter banjo connections.  To reduce the height ?
May be take the opportunity for separate reservoirs?

Two of these?

https://www.carbuilder.com/uk/single-brake-fluid-reservoir-without-bracket-and-diaphragm

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Thanks for the link but I would have to choose between clutch or brakes and I am too old to go for the clutch only now. :D There are more cars around as well ?Can you recommend a specialist technician who could work on a new reservoir which I could test for  six months on a garage shelf.

Thanks

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On 1/9/2022 at 5:56 PM, Richardtr3a said:

My tin can is too close to the bonnet and there is a vibration. I have tried hard to get a tight bend on the supply pipes but it is no help. My new project is to cut 3/4" off the top of the can and have the lid welded back on. The inside clutch supply will have to be made shorter as well. I did try and tighten the lid and seal but damaged it so it must be time to start again.

I do not have any leaks and all the seals are new, thanks to Past Parts. Can this alteration be dangerous ??

Thanks or any advice Richard & B

To get the tightest possible bend on the pipes, fill them with sand before bending. It stops them collapsing. 

Rgds Ian

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Yes the original pipes do have a fairly tight bend after the nut that fits to the bottom of the reservoir.  The originals I have shew some flattening of the tube where the bend is.

The Girling replacement twin plastic reservoir that was a replacement for the metal can has a single bottom outlet and a push of adaptor at the side for a rubber hose.  The kit included a rubber hose and two clamps as well as the tank with cap and support bracket.

 

Image of the original Girling tank from the Girling parts book

 

114530 tank.jpg

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Beware of the replacement reservoirs.  The original had soft aluminium gaskets/seals at the bottom of the can where the outlet nozzles fit, The replacements have a rubber seal and on mine one of them failed and leaked brake fluid all over the front wing just below it.  I have removed the offending seals and reassembled everything with some very expensive gasket cement that claims to be proof against everything and to date has done the job.

I had to replace the original reservoir because it had pinholed but I wish I had kept the base of the can.  The replacement came from Moss and had only been on a couple of years before it failed.  I expect all the modern ones are from the same source irrespective of the retailer.

Rgds Ian

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On 1/9/2022 at 5:56 PM, Richardtr3a said:

My tin can is too close to the bonnet and there is a vibration. I have tried hard to get a tight bend on the supply pipes but it is no help. My new project is to cut 3/4" off the top of the can and have the lid welded back on. The inside clutch supply will have to be made shorter as well. I did try and tighten the lid and seal but damaged it so it must be time to start again.

I do not have any leaks and all the seals are new, thanks to Past Parts. Can this alteration be dangerous ??

Thanks or any advice Richard & B

Soldered surely on this tin, I would think as original so desoldering the top was the first thing, 

cut the body and solder back on, test for leaks,  with compressed air in water and repaint

would have thought that was a simple enough job.

John.

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Thanks for the advice. I am now looking for a specialist workshop in E Sussex who I can contact to get it right. It would be tempting to do it myself but I have no crimping experience and my soldering is only useful on plumbing replacement in the house.

A  careful experienced specialist would be best with a workshop near Lewes , Sussex. I like Roger's plan but taking off the top and new solder seems safer and will reduce the leak potential in the future, and would look less of a bodge.

Richard & B

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Surely the best thing to do is to get the pipes bent as they should be, then you can drop the resevoir down to where it should be.

Bob

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If you remove the pipes from the bottom you may well wish you’d left them alone.

I had a hell of a job putting everything back without it leaking.

I did it to remove the central tube so that I could fit a low fluid sensor. This also meant that the top of the reservoir was even higher, but by putting a sharper bend on the pipes and sloping the reservoir slightly I was able to get it to miss the bonnet.

 

Charlie

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8 hours ago, Lebro said:

Surely the best thing to do is to get the pipes bent as they should be, then you can drop the resevoir down to where it should be.

+1 seems obvious - to this mind

james

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When I fitted out the new pipe runs,  for the clutch and brakes on my Girling car, I did use sand at first but was bot happy and finally managed a very tight bend X2. I did try sand but was more successful with an old speedo cable inner. This was putting the car on the road after a major chassis project. It has been all right ever since until I had the scuttle bare metal painted last year. The plinths for the hinges were sanded flat, being only filler, and now my reservoir is too close to the bonnet.

Does any member on the forum have an old container , for sale, that I can use for cutting and testing. I would appreciate some help with this project.

Thanks Richard & B.

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