Testing a rebuilt engine

[Peter Douglas Winn]

I have had my engine rebuilt. The garage said it has ???? PS they have done a rolling road check. I do not believe them the peformance does not reflect this statement. . They wiil not show or give me any charts or paper to prove this statement. My question is what is the normal procedure in checking out the engine after a rebuild? Is there a requirement for the engine to be run in before putting it on a rolling road. Must the garage check the compression? Must the head be tightened down before? Is there a rev restriction? When can one put a full load on the engine for testing pruposes etc etc? I cannot find anything written down. What is the procedure. My gut feeling says:- Run it in with low load and varying revs. Tighten head down. Slowly increase the loading until you reach full load then do a rolling road check. Not before. 

[Motorsport Mickey]

28 minutes ago, Peter Douglas Winn said:

I have had my engine rebuilt. The garage said it has ???? PS they have done a rolling road check. I do not believe them the peformance does not reflect this statement. . They wiil not show or give me any charts or paper to prove this statement. My question is what is the normal procedure in checking out the engine after a rebuild?

Is there a requirement for the engine to be run in before putting it on a rolling road.............Yes, often with a race engine the rolling road will load the engine (give it resistance on the rollers) and over maybe 20 mins bed the piston rings in to the bores. On a roadgoing engine I'd give it about 200 miles and then retorque the head undoing the nuts 1 flat first and then back up to prescribed torque (often the nut will tighten up further).

Must the garage check the compression? .....No, but it's a good practice to do so. All the compressions should be about the same within say 5-10%, you can't judge from the figures how good or bad the engine is. All gauges are different, the clue is in the name...it's a gauge.

Must the head be tightened down before?...See above, my engines ALL have the head retorqued before rolling roading. The rolling road is a harsh environment where the engine is expected to run up to it's limits, it's not sensible to do that on a head that hasn't been retorqued, taking up any slack where the gasket may have  relaxed as it goes through heat cycles.

Is there a rev restriction when bedding in on the roads ?...Yes, after starting my engines are run immediately run at NO LESS than 2000 revs for as long as it takes me to check no oil or water leaks, then straight out on the public roads to complete 200 miles of bedding in. Again revs ALWAYS at 2000 revs minimum (ignore stares at bustops and traffic lights)  Then using between 2-3000 revs and avoiding lugging the engine change up or down keeping the revs in the proscribed range.

 The answers above should cover these last points...When can one put a full load on the engine for testing pruposes etc etc? I cannot find anything written down. What is the procedure. My gut feeling says:- Run it in with low load and varying revs. Tighten head down. Slowly increase the loading until you reach full load then do a rolling road check. Not before. 

See answers above to differing points.

Mick Richards

[Waldi]

It appears a bit strange the garage will not share the RR results with you, assuming you paid for it and agreed upon the test prior to doing it. What was their reason?

Waldi

[Mike C]

I agree with Waldi , there's something odd about your garage's behavior. I wouldn't pay their invoice until all outstanding matters are sorted out, including warranties.

You might want to have a look at the running  in procedures detailed in the "Running Instructions" of the original Triumph TR6 PI Owners Handbook.

[Peter Douglas Winn]

I do not believe the garage had even done this test. I think they just put the stripped down engine, back together again and then put it in the car and gave the car back to me. Only after having tried to run it in, I found multiple problems. (They insisted that I should not drive faster than 2000 rpm for 666 miles.???????).

These problems could be put down to bad workmanship or damage caused by a Rolling road test too early. I believe the former. I did not request a RR. They gave me official papers stating there was an increase in power output.

I am not sure about the legal aspects, I will leave them to my solicitor.

 

[Andy Moltu]

I was always told to do 20 mins at 2000 rpm to bed the cam/followers in. (Can be in shorter bursts to allow checking of fluid levels, timing and the like on initial start up)

Then take for a spin. Remove rockers & retorque, ut the rockers back, set the tappets and drive sensibly for 600 miles or so - limit the amount of idling and don't overdo it with a rev limit of 4000rpm and 3/4 throtle. Then drain the running in oil and progressively increase the boot and progressive increase in revs to 5000 over the next 200-300 miles. Then you are run in.

At 1000 miles I would retorque the head again and that would be an opprtunity to have it on the rollers to make sure all is optimised in terms of fuel and timing before using max revs.  I would advise not being around when the car is on the rollers - you will just cringe at the noise as they take it up to max revs worrying that you have put it together properly, waiting for it to go bang. Cars sound so much louder when you are next to them rather than sitting in them.

[john.r.davies]

I follow a similar routine to Andy, but would add that during that first 600 (300-500) miles, whenever road conditions allow I accelerate in as high a gear as possible without baulking, to maximise bore pressure and force the rings against the bore wall, and then slow down in gear with throttle closed, to minimise the pressure and draw oil up into the bore and the ring lands.   Repeat ad nauseam, and it would be nauseam for anyone behind me, so only on  a clear road, if there is driving normally does no harm.     This avoids bore glazing and poor ring seal, that will result if the car is'driven gently' for the same number of miles.   

Seems to work.    As the engine achieves optimal state it will gain a few BHP as drag lessens, so only test afterwrads.

[PodOne]

Kind of a similar process I used to use for MX5 engine rebuilds. Start check timing and for leaks then out on the road and once up to temperature wind up to 4000- 4500rpm in as high a gear as possible and snap the the throttle shut to force the rings against the bore and coast down in gear then repeat 10 times. Job done. Drop the mineral oil after 250 miles replace drop after another 500 with sensible driving and then synthetic. The TR seems a little different in that there is the cam/followers to consider so a newbie question!

Do you run the cam/followers in on the drive at 2000rpm first?

Or simply run in the car as Andy/John suggest and the cam will run in just as well?

Interestingly what advice did owners get when the car was new?

Andy

PS what oil would you recommend for running in?

[Peter Douglas Winn]

I think we are all saying roughly the same thing. Except for the glove compartment book where is it written down?

[Tim D.]

Pretty much followed the same routine for my engine on the advice of TRGB

1) start the engine run up to 2000 rpm check for leaks etc. Stop the engine if it gets to 3/4 temp, cool and then do again until you reach 20 mins total elapsed time. In my case it never overheated so it was just 20 mins at 2000 rpm.

2) allow to full cool (overnight) and reset tappets

3) drive for 200-400 miles, no lugging keep revs below 4000 rpm but periodically give it some beans to take it through the rev range followed by throttle shut off and run down to lower revs (I drove it to cornwall on holiday)

4) retorque the head check the tappets change the oil (carried out on the drive of our holiday cottage to the amusments of the locals, lots of comments about unreliable british sports cars!)

5) drive it (I actually did the Round britain reliability run next, 2000 miles, 48 hours, glorious empty roads in scotland and wales..) The engine was noticably smoother and more responsive after the run, shame the gearbox was toast.. another story...

Tim

[Peter Douglas Winn]

If I need to go to court, I will have to have something in writing.

[Mike C]

1 hour ago, Peter Douglas Winn said:

If I need to go to court, I will have to have something in writing.

That makes the legal process a lot easier. You want to avoid a messy dispute- I don't know about Munich but I had a property dispute last year and the lawyer cost me $A500/hr.

[Peter Douglas Winn]

Luckily I have Advocats insurance.

[astontr6]

4 hours ago, Mike C said:

That makes the legal process a lot easier. You want to avoid a messy dispute- I don't know about Munich but I had a property dispute last year and the lawyer cost me $A500/hr.

Those people seem to know how to charge the world over?

Bruce.

[Andy Moltu]

It would appear wounded rhinos are not so endangered if they are charging like that!

[Peter Douglas Winn]

It's the same old story. My father used to ask me as a kid "Have you ever seen a poor Bookmaker?"

Mike, if you are stupid enough to pay the money, they are stupid enough to take it.

[Mike C]

14 hours ago, Peter Douglas Winn said:

It's the same old story. My father used to ask me as a kid "Have you ever seen a poor Bookmaker?"

Mike, if you are stupid enough to pay the money, they are stupid enough to take it.

No option in Australia- if one side of a dispute  lawyer's up the other side must follow or risk losing the matter-which would include paying the  opposing  side's legal fees.

I'd make sure the Advocats Insurance covered your situation before going to court. Maybe your matter can be settled before a civil arbitrator . For what it's worth the costs of both parties for an appearance in the Magistrates Court out here would be about the same as buying a very good TR6 .

What  got me was the time spent while  the lawyer chatted  to me about his TR3 days at Melb. Uni- while  his fee charging  meter ticked away.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Mike C

[Peter Douglas Winn]

Here it is not so bad.

[Mike C]

Good luck. I reckon you're getting badly treated by your garage.