Driving on snow and ice

[Deggers]

It's that time of year again folks.

Here's some timeless good advice from 1957.

(Incidentally, when was the last time you saw cursive writing on a blackboard? Quite a few decades ago I'd wager. )

Deggers

[TorontoTim]

That's all pretty much true still (I see a lot opf snow and ice over here - sometimes just going to the shops, sometimes rallying). 

Even with vastly improved winter tyres, there are still things to be reminded of. 

[barkerwilliams]

It brought back memories of my youth in the company vans driving for fun on the wide, wet cobbled areas on the dock side, and when we got real snow setting off for the  weekend to the north Yoirkshire moors with a shovel and grit and a sleeping bag  in the back just incase.

Alan

[iain]

Very good perhaps coupled with this one on skid technique featuring an ex works 3a from 1959.

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by iain

[Steves_TR6]

Great videos, time for some practice :-)

[Bleednipple]

I got two take-outs from that: (1) always refer to it as "snorr" and (2) always wear a tie.

I hope the competitors on LE JOG don't need those tips before they get to John O'Groats tomorrow evening, but the weather forecast says they might. (Lee and Max Clarke in their TR4 were still runners at the end of Leg 3 last night.)

Nigel

[multipletriumphsinner]

I got all my experience of driving on snow, and ice on RAF stations on 12 hour night, and weekend day shifts. Hours, and hours of opposite lock stuff in a variety of Escort Estates, Minis, Chevette Estates, and Landy's. 

I think my record was 15 minutes on opposite lock going round, and round on a Vulcan dispersal.

[john.r.davies]

Lancashire CC used to run a road safety school in Blackburn.      For a very small charge, evening courses included a lecture, and sessions on their skid pan with instructors in cars equipped with slick tyres.     The pad was smooth tarmac, lubricated with water sprays.       VERY easy to skid and practice opposite lock, but the best lesson I learnt was not to brake.      The instructor demonstrated how the front aquaplaned under braking as the tyres locked up with no steering at all, but release the brakes and immediately you had control.   A bizarre feeling when you did it yourself, and the car darted sideways as you released the brakes.

I used to take a party from my department once a year, which as we had new trainees on annual rotation got a lot of people some skid experience, but sad to say, vandals broke in too many times, trashed the vehicles and the LCC closed it down twenty five years ago.

There are many skid training courses available that are a LOT more expensive than the old Blackburn course, but I'd recommend them to anyone, probably not a new driver but someone with a few years experience, because one day, you WILL skid!         Xmas present??

John

[stuart]

One of our local members is an Instructor for a local driver training scheme and has access to skid training vehicles, he occasionally organise days for members to take part.its great fun. The modern way is also a car equipped with a set of outrigger wheels that lift the car to give the "loss of traction"

Stuart.

[Motorsport Mickey]

1 hour ago, john.r.davies said:

Lancashire CC used to run a road safety school in Blackburn.      For a very small charge, evening courses included a lecture, and sessions on their skid pan with instructors in cars equipped with slick tyres.     The pad was smooth tarmac, lubricated with water sprays.       VERY easy to skid and practice opposite lock, but the best lesson I learnt was not to brake.      The instructor demonstrated how the front aquaplaned under braking as the tyres locked up with no steering at all, but release the brakes and immediately you had control.   A bizarre feeling when you did it yourself, and the car darted sideways as you released the brakes.

I used to take a party from my department once a year, which as we had new trainees on annual rotation got a lot of people some skid experience, but sad to say, vandals broke in too many times, trashed the vehicles and the LCC closed it down twenty five years ago.

There are many skid training courses available that are a LOT more expensive than the old Blackburn course, but I'd recommend them to anyone, probably not a new driver but someone with a few years experience, because one day, you WILL skid!         Xmas present??

John

+1 John.

"A bizarre feeling when you did it yourself, and the car darted sideways as you released the brakes."

That has saved me a number of times, especially in winter on snowy roads. However it's not to be underestimated how much your instinct says "keep braking or you'll die" !

Just as in driving on a racetrack and finding out the way to counter understeer is actually to give the car more throttle, until the rear wheels lose enough grip so that the front wheels then have more and the car will regain steering. This is worth finding out under controlled circumstances where the battle to counter your instincts can be developed.

Once learned it's with you for life. 

Mick Richards

[Peter Cobbold]

A TR6 with standard springs is pretty good on snow, but stiffer springs and arbs ruin the grip, even on grass. Nowadays I use the Duster on winter tyres: 4wd, diff-lock, and disabled stability control. Better on hills than a Defender, but I dont need to carry sheep-fodder.

[harlequin]

Before I retired I spent many years in Scandinavia, during my first winter there I was very lucky to be given some tips on getting around in the snow by a Norwegian colleague. The very first and most important tip was to clean the tyres with white spirit, this removed all the oil from the tyre and improved the grip significantly even with spiked tyres. This worked untill the next time you drove on black top which could be 3 or 4 months away, then once again the tyres started picking up oil again.

George 

[john.r.davies]

When I worked in Sweden, everybody had two sets of wheels, one with spiked tyres, which they change to in December.   Which is fine in the countryside, but in town with lots of traffic every road gets scrubbed down to the tarmac, and further.     The road surfaces  in the capital were awful!      We left to be home for Xmas so didn't see the worst of it.

[harlequin]

1 hour ago, john.r.davies said:

When I worked in Sweden, everybody had two sets of wheels, one with spiked tyres, which they change to in December.   Which is fine in the countryside, but in town with lots of traffic every road gets scrubbed down to the tarmac, and further.     The road surfaces  in the capital were awful!      We left to be home for Xmas so didn't see the worst of it.

Spikes are now discouraged and I think banned in urban areas, everyone still has 2 sets of wheels but now it's winter tyres that are used. If you are involved in an accident after the end of October and have Summer tyres fitted you will have trouble convincing the police that it wasn't your fault.

George 

[Steves_TR6]

I have two sets of wheels for the Alpina, one shod with Michelin Alpin winters

the difference in grip/traction with temps below 10c and especially in the wet is astonishing

today we drove a few miles to get some shopping in cold and wet conditions and the Alpins gave great security, especially when a 4x4 failed to stop at a junction and we had to take evasive action !

steve

 

[Deggers]

55 minutes ago, Steves_TR6 said:

I have two sets of wheels for the Alpina, one shod with Michelin Alpin winters

+1 

I keep a set of Vredestein Snow+  tyres and wheels for the winter. 

Great tyres: particularly sure-footed in the white stuff, and confident and nimble on loose dirt and gravel.

Deggers

[john.r.davies]

2 hours ago, harlequin said:

Spikes are now discouraged and I think banned in urban areas, everyone still has 2 sets of wheels but now it's winter tyres that are used. If you are involved in an accident after the end of October and have Summer tyres fitted you will have trouble convincing the police that it wasn't your fault.

George 

Thanks, George!  My time in Sweden was long ago!

[harlequin]

4 minutes ago, john.r.davies said:

Thanks, George!  My time in Sweden was long ago!

It's a while ago for me as well John but I have a son who still lives there so we try  (covid allowing) to get back quite often 

George 

[Bleednipple]

18 minutes ago, Deggers said:

+1 

I keep a set of Vredestein Snow+  tyres and wheels for the winter. 

Great tyres: particularly sure-footed in the white stuff, and confident and nimble on loose dirt and gravel.

Deggers

I've got Vred Snowtrac winters on my Alfa, that I use for road rallying - and in fact I've kept them on all this year for variously-surfaced events as they seem to be a decent tyre for when (like Forrest Gump) you don' know what yer gonna git. 

Nigel

[Steves_TR6]

Vredestein do seem to make a good range of tyres

i have sporttrac 5s on the tr6 and have been very happy with them including at a very wet trackday last year :-)

 

[multipletriumphsinner]

1 hour ago, Steves_TR6 said:

Vredestein do seem to make a good range of tyres

i have sporttrac 5s on the tr6 and have been very happy with them including at a very wet trackday last year :-)

 

Andy Martin in ex works PI WRX 902H behind you!

[Hamish]

1 hour ago, Steves_TR6 said:

Vredestein do seem to make a good range of tyres

i have sporttrac 5s on the tr6 and have been very happy with them including at a very wet trackday last year :-)

 

Vredestien sprint classics are good in wet and dry.

is it always wet at castle Combe?

 

 

[multipletriumphsinner]

I once had to pick up a 2.5PI saloon from Felixstowe that had come in from Norway that night. It had been delayed so by the time I got out of the docks it was something like 3am. I thought it strange that the customer had put a spare set of wheels, and tyres on the back seat, but thought nothing of it until I got out onto the dual carriageway, and gave it some beans. There was a strange noise that I had never heard the like of before, and just as I reached 70mph I had a simultaneous blow out on two diagonal tyres which sent me spinning up both lanes. Good job the roads were empty at this time of the morning.

 

Yes it had studded tyres!

[harlequin]

1 hour ago, multipletriumphsinner said:

I once had to pick up a 2.5PI saloon from Felixstowe that had come in from Norway that night. It had been delayed so by the time I got out of the docks it was something like 3am. I thought it strange that the customer had put a spare set of wheels, and tyres on the back seat, but thought nothing of it until I got out onto the dual carriageway, and gave it some beans. There was a strange noise that I had never heard the like of before, and just as I reached 70mph I had a simultaneous blow out on two diagonal tyres which sent me spinning up both lanes. Good job the roads were empty at this time of the morning.

 

Yes it had studded tyres!

Because spikes were only used in the winter they didn't do a great milage and almost never at speeds over 50, then they were left in a stack for 8 months often outside so like the tyres on our TRs it was not unusual to see very ancient tyres. I imagine the vibration caused by using spikes on blacktop at UK speeds was the last straw.

Must of been scary 

George 

[john.r.davies]

They certainly make a weird nose on tarmac!    But if you had never heard it, MTs, I think you may be forgiven your sins!

Edited December 7, 2021 by john.r.davies