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Stuck Cylinder Head


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My TR3 engine died over the weekend while idling in driveway. It was making a terrible sound under the rocker cover, so I removed it and found a stuck intake valve on the number one cylinder. I went to go pull the head and cant get it to lift off the block. I was able to pull all the head studs out except for one in the rear. I've tried soaking it in penetrating oil and smacking the head and block with a mallet with no success. Does anyone have any good ideas or tips on getting it to move. I've tried everything that I can think of to get it to move. 

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Edited by JPUCK
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I had the same problem last year, head had not been off since 1960 something. The same rear stud would not shift either. I used an engine hoist on the head to pull upwards until the car was almost off the ground, then it was "brute force & ignorance" using levers in between the water pump, & head, also long pipe pushed into various ports, & lifting, & chisels' screwdrivers etc hammered into the join (choose where carefully so as not to damage where it counts) It moved eventually but was very hard work.   Later last year I did a complete engine strip down, & with the block on the ground, & everything else removed managed to get the stud out using 3 X nuts on the thread, & two ring spanners with long poles to extend them, it shifted eventually, heaven knows what torque I was putting on it ! but it did not snap, or show any signs of twisting.    Good luck

Bob.

Edited by Lebro
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Looking at yours i don't think that this is the case but a performance mod a few years back was to move the head to one side. This was positioned by fitting a small grub screw in the side of the head which pushed onto the first and last stud thus holding the head over before tightening. Worth a look. I got caught by this when helping a member some 20 years ago.

Strange core plug in the centre of your head ?

Roy

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Use Kano Aerokroil on it, it states "your money back if it can't free it" I've never asked for my money back yet.

Oh...it's probably about £30 now for a aerosol sized container, if you think that's expensive you haven't yet reached the end of your tether trying to remove that bolt. Available on Amazon and E bay amongst others.

Oh just check the inlet manifold stud hole which is in line with that head stud, sometimes they are drilled through and if the manifold stud is fitted it can bind on the head stud. It looks like you've removed the stud on yours in which case see if some Kroil squirted in will seep down the head stud if it is drilled through. If all other studs are out sometimes turning the head around the stuck stud can gain you some clearance, you are likely going to skim head and block anyway and the head gasket protects the surfaces from a lot.

Mick Richards   

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2 minutes ago, roy53 said:

Looking at yours i don't think that this is the case but a performance mod a few years back was to move the head to one side. This was positioned by fitting a small grub screw in the side of the head which pushed onto the first and last stud thus holding the head over before tightening. Worth a look. I got caught by this when helping a member some 20 years ago.

Strange core plug in the centre of your head ?

Roy

Good thinking Roy, an offset head is still the best performance mod but you need slotted cylinder stud holes to push it into. These stud holes on the head are standard.

Mick Richards

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Just ordered some  KANO AeroKroil to try on it. I'm really confused because I would think it would move some when lifting up on the front of the head. I've pulled up the front of it with a large 3 foot 1/2 drive breaker bar with not even a small move. Its almost like I am missing a bolt or something. 

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This might seem too simple but I was taught to use a very fine knife blade to act as a slight wedge between the head and the block. I tap it in lightly working my way around the head. Each rotation around the head I tap it in a little bit further. 

Eventually it breaks the seal with the block and the head studs and off comes the head. Last time I did it it took about 30 minutes, maybe 10 times around the head.

Edited by John McCormack
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With only 1 bolt in I would try to move (turn) the head slightly anti clockwise to unlock the rust.

I never done this before, just an idea of desperation.

Edited by Z320
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4 hours ago, Z320 said:

try to move (turn) the head slightly

Would you not need to remove the water punmp first in order to swing the head, even by a bit?

Charlie

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10 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

Oh just check the inlet manifold stud hole which is in line with that head stud, sometimes they are drilled through and if the manifold stud is fitted it can bind on the head stud. It looks like you've removed the stud on yours in which case see if some Kroil squirted in will seep down the head stud if it is drilled through. If all other studs are out sometimes turning the head around the stuck stud can gain you some clearance, you are likely going to skim head and block anyway and the head gasket protects the surfaces from a lot.

Mick Richards   

I suspect the manifold stud has caused the problem, if they get wound in tight against the stud they can burr the stud enough to cause this problem even with the stud removed, might be an idea also to check the hole in case theres a bit of old stud broken off in there.

Tapping sideways with a mallet at the front of the block might help to unstick it too.

Stuart.

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Have you tried inserting a tyre lever or similar between the water pump housing and the thermostat bowl and apply some leverage.  That's how in the past I have moved mine.

Alternatively, a couple of wooden wedges hammered in the same place, one from each side might shift it  

Rgds Ian

 

Edited by Ian Vincent
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How about turning the crank until number 4 piston is on the upstroke.  Feed some rope into the combustion chambers and turn the crank compressing the rope and forcing the cylinder head upward.  Pressure can be applied in that manner while some technical taps are applied to the head.  This method can also be applied to keep valves in place if replacement of the valve springs might be required without removing the head.  

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5 hours ago, stuart said:

I suspect the manifold stud has caused the problem, if they get wound in tight against the stud they can burr the stud enough to cause this problem even with the stud removed, might be an idea also to check the hole in case theres a bit of old stud broken off in there.

Tapping sideways with a mallet at the front of the block might help to unstick it too.

Stuart.

Good point Stuart

yes i have seen the manifold stud fowling the head bolt. Forgot that one.

Roy

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15 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

Good thinking Roy, an offset head is still the best performance mod but you need slotted cylinder stud holes to push it into. These stud holes on the head are standard.

Mick Richards

As i said i didn't think that the head had been moved over.

Mick

Do you think that moving the head over is still the preferred mod ? i hear that they are moving them back and doing modifications to the chambers.

Not that i know, just try to pick up as much knowledge as possible.

Roy

 

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Hi Roy,

I'm a big adopter of modern tuning practices but castings which were "variable" at the time and have been eroded by 50 plus years of corrosion are somewhat hit and miss when modern practices are performed on them. When you see a CNC machine working on a tabulated programme and at various places in the operations no cuttings or work are done then the results can be hit and miss. Whereas moving the head across 3 mm on the block will always move the inlet valve 3mm further away from the cylinder liner wall and improve the flow of incoming petrol mix by big numbers. I believe ALL racers now use the offset head and I've had confirmed the same in the US.

Try this photo and see what various items you can see are different in this head. It gives BIG numbers when used on a TR with ALL the attendant add ons, aggressive camshaft, full flow exhaust, injection or Weber carbs etc.

One clue...look at the bridge gaps between chambers, follow the gasket line around the chamber, see how much closer the inlet valve would be to obstructions if this was a standard head in it's standard position. How much smaller would the inlet valve have to be to approach the flow speeds you can get on this head ? 

1701917983_RaceTR4Head.thumb.jpg.a2e1b9243f1261773c8f14a744753767.jpg

Mick Richards

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2 hours ago, Mastaphixa said:

How about turning the crank until number 4 piston is on the upstroke.  Feed some rope into the combustion chambers and turn the crank compressing the rope and forcing the cylinder head upward.  Pressure can be applied in that manner while some technical taps are applied to the head.  This method can also be applied to keep valves in place if replacement of the valve springs might be required without removing the head.  

Might have to be careful with how much effort you put into lifting the head. Acknowledgement to John Davies for the photo and tale.

Mick Richards

 

Bentconrod.jpg

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2 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

Might have to be careful with how much effort you put into lifting the head. Acknowledgement to John Davies for the photo and tale.

Mick Richards

Do without the rope and let the compression do its job. In this case, it may work.

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2 hours ago, JochemsTR said:

 

Do without the rope and let the compression do its job. In this case, it may work.

It might just unseat the liners too.

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8 hours ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

It might just unseat the liners too.

Almost guaranteed it will. Try my suggestion with the thin blade.

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I really would have expected a couple of folding wedges between the underside of the thermostat bowl and the water pump housing would have lifted the front end.  Once you have the front end up, a couple of thin blades on either side of the block as far back towards the bulkhead as you can get them would allow you to press down on the front to apply some leverage to back.  It would also allow you to tap it sideways with a wooden mallet at the front.

Rgds Ian

Edited by Ian Vincent
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+1, I think that's one of the tricks I used.  To raise the front I used a crowbar between pump, & thermostat housing.

Bob.

See below for my efforts !

https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/72367-head-off-time/

 

Edited by Lebro
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Maybe I worry too much, but I can picture myself doing that and saying “Just one more push will do it” and then the thermostat bulge cracks away from the head and flies into the air.

Charlie.

Edited by Charlie D
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Stuck heads are relatively common on Stags. A local specialist who probably rebuilds more of those engines than all the others combined now smears the studs with ceramic grease when he reassembles them to try and minimise future issues like this.

Lever, wiggle and judicious use of a dead shot hammer until the stud & gasket lets go of the head. I doubt an induction release would produce enough heat differential to free the stud reed the stud with the head in place.

 

 I know it goes against conventional practice but I put a smear of copperslip on the stud threads in the hope of making future removal easier. The ARP studs now have Allen heads to ease insertion/removal.

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