D V L A car uninsured penalty.

[YOW500]

Help Please.

My wife has had a series of letters, dating back some weeks from the D V L A  enforcement centre, saying that her car is not insured. The first letter back in June stated, "if the car is now insured, ignore this letter".

My wife's car has always been insured, and over that period of time we have sent details of our insurance documents, our underwriters have also sent confirmation, our details appear on the  M I D. ( motor industries database )  confirming that we are insured. Yesterday we received an other letter saying that a fixed penalty notice must be paid for £50 by 23rd Nov, or the penalty will increase to £100. Sent to my wife without any further explanation whatsoever.

I have found it impossible to actually speak with anyone from the D V L A.  Although the D V L A letter has a ref number, the enforcement centre do not give an e mail contact. Up to now we have sent the documentation by registered/recorded delivery so as to be signed for.

Has anyone had a similar experience, or could anyone please advise me as to what to do next.

Thank you, Russell

 

[RogerH]

Hi Russell,

I would ignore it as I would a TV license.

You know you have insurance, Your insurers know you are insured. 

Let them take you to court and then embarrass them.

 

Roger

[Ali King]

Also, do everything you can to ensure it's not a scam.

[Ali King]

... take a look at this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dvla-releases-latest-scam-images-to-help-keep-motorists-safe-online

[barkerwilliams]

Under no circumstances would I ignore the letter. I would respond keeping copies of everything perhaps recorded delivery. You can then demonstrate at a later date that you did everything you could to resolve the situation.

Many of these penaties are automated, does the policy holders name exactly match the car owners name? Not Kathy on one and Katherine on the other for example. Similarly the address does it match exactly?

At the same time launch a complaint at

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/driver-and-vehicle-licensing-agency/about/complaints-procedure

They should respond quickly and again you can at a later date demonstrate that you did everything you could.

Since Covid HMRC and DVLA to name but two are struggling to keep their heads above water with delays of months in the system.

Alan

 

[barkerwilliams]

This may be behind a paywall but is worth a read if you can get to it, DVLA gets a mention.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/our-lives-put-on-hold-by-the-chaos-at-hmrc-mjw7hj5jv

Sunday Times article today

Alan

[Bleednipple]

Firstly, as recommended above, check carefully that it's not a scam.

Then, appeal the fixed penalty in writing with DVLA (write to DVLA Enforcement Centre).

You could just wait for them to prosecute you through the magistrates court. But you'd have to plead not guilty to a charge of no insurance, wait for a trial date - certainly months at the moment - and be prepared either to pay for a solicitor or to represent yourself at trial. At best, a lot of hassle.

And if it turned out that for some ghastly technical reason you didn't have insurance in force, even though you honestly believed you did, you would still be guilty of the offence. You could then potentially argue 'special reasons' for a reduction or waiving of the penalty points (otherwise it's a mandatory 6 points) but would still be liable for a fine, court surcharge and prosecution costs, and you'd have a criminal conviction.

So making a formal response to DVLA about the penalty charge is almost certainly going to be the most important thing to do at this point.

Nigel

[Ian Vincent]

+1

Formal response to DVLA and sent recorded delivery including a copy of your insurance certificate (and their most recent letter) and then sit back and ignore them. 

Rgds Ian 

PS This was the approach I adopted over an issue with TV licence when I didn’t have a TV in the house and it ended when they actually took me to court and were massively embarrassed. 

[Misfit]

+1

My daughter is going through the same, DVLA sent a no insurance letter and fine details. Apparently having added a personal  reg to the vehicle, even though the new log book was issued, it seems the insurance company didn’t amend the details with DVLA.

She sent a recorded letter with a copy of certificate and contacted them by phone. She has appealed and awaiting a reply following a review.

Will let you know the outcome 

[Ali King]

Also ...

You mention that your underwriters have confirmed your car is on the MID, but maybe just check yourself to be sure ...

https://ownvehicle.askmid.com/

 

[YOW500]

Thank you all.

I will send back all the information today, in paper form, recorded delivery. What a great Country we are turning into when you cant actually speak to someone to sort something out.

Will let you know what happens, but it may take some time.

Russell

[Andy Moltu]

Check with your insurance company.

That way you get confirmation that you are insured.  There have been spoof web sites that appear to sell insurance and even send out fake documents on headed paper or by email.  Keeps people believing they have bought legit insurance for long enough to receive payment and move it before the credit card company reclaim it. Do this with the insurance company if you can although a spoof web site will likely be long gone.

It may well be a glitch that has meant the insurance details haven’t uploaded correctly to the DVLA.

 

[Nigel A]

I had the same letter, spoke to A plan and they investigated and assured me everything was ok and to ignore it. I did also check on the insurance database and the TR was there. Only difference was the spacing between TR and 250 was different on the database and insurance certificate 

Nigel

[MilesA]

7 hours ago, Nigel A said:

I had the same letter, spoke to A plan and they investigated and assured me everything was ok and to ignore it. I did also check on the insurance database and the TR was there.

Nigel

+ 1 for my 3A.

Miles

[lynchpin]

Quite a while ago I had a similar letter, checked with my insurance company only to find they had misheard me on the phone and had one letter wrong on their records which they instantly corrected, never heard another thing..

   Phil..

[YOW500]

Today, the DVLA, in correspondence with the Motor Industry Bureau, have agreed to "close the case against my partner with no further action required". About b----y time too. This issue started off in June. My thanks to the Motor Industry Bureau  (MIB), who eventual, somehow, managed to get the DVLA to agree their was no case to answer. I found that dealing with the DVLA was next to impossible. The only certain way was to reply to their "letters", with a letter to be signed for by them. At no time during the process did I have a persons name to reply to directly, or to e mail. You stand no chance whatsoever of speaking to a real person on the phone. The whole thing is a disgrace.

For those who are not aware, the MIB have a huge data base. They are able to make connections between, Taxed, SORN'ed, and uninsured vehicles. This information is also used by the DVLA, and the Police, in order to crack down on uninsured motorist.

If you find yourself in a similar position, good luck, without the help of the MIB, who you can speak with, you stand almost no chance.

Russell

[RogerH]

Hi Russell,

 I would be tempted to reply as you did to a point and then ignore their annoyance. 

Contact your MP with the details and then wait for the court case.

Their disgraceful actions can then be seen in pubic.

 

Roger

[duncan]

I would guess that part of the problem is homeworking.  Documents may or may not be getting to the right people, forgotten on desks, no one able to check or manage, they may be too busy walking the dog, doing the washing, social browsing to do a full day's work.  Another year or so & all the homeworkers will be either brought back in or on lower wages due to lower work rates.

Maybe I am bias but, as working in the office of a food industry producer right through COVID, I have seen the homeworking problems affecting customers & suppliers. 

[barkerwilliams]

Duncan,

perhaps but plenty of stories in the press that Home-working is to become permanent feature for Civil Service

This was already being introduced into the DiO since 2016'ish, possibly in other government departments to allow them to downsize office buildings.

I could be charitable and suggest the practice needs time to mature to produce good results, but then i'm a cynic.

Alan

Edited November 23, 2021 by barkerwilliams

[RobH]

4 minutes ago, barkerwilliams said:

I could be charitable and suggest the practice needs time to mature to produce good results,

If it doesn't work straight out of the box then it isn't fit for purpose. They are supposed to be serving the public - not experimenting on us to suit themselves.  

[John Morrison]

Well ain't that the truth.

John.

[YOW500]

CONCLUSION.

Since my last comment, I have had two more connections with the MIB and the DVLA. The MIB assured me that the situation was now closed, and a week later the DVLA told me my car was still not on the MIB database, and that action could still be taken.

Following a letter I sent to the DVLA, CEO, ( I am sure it never got to her ) I had an "e mail" from the Enforcement Customer Experience Manager. He stated in his e mail that "I can confirm that the case is closed and you will hear nothing further". Almost seven months from the first contact, I do trust he is correct.

For those who may ever be in a similar position I now have an actual e mail address, and the name of a real person at the DVLA. if ever you feel the need.

THE END  ( I hope )

Russell

 

[tim hunt]

Not the same issue but related. I was surprised to receive a letter today from the Motor Insurer's Bureau advising me that the record of insurance for my 4A 'does not appear on the Motor Insurance Database'. I immediately went on www.askMID.com and surprise turned to horror when I found that indeed there was no current insurance recorded. I called my insurer and was told that very occasionally the record can fail to be updated and they would sort it out through the broker. I fail to see how my car can suddenly have dropped off the database and suspect it has been absent since I renewed the insurance on 1st August - I wonder why it took so long for it to be queried. I am not in the habit of checking the MID a few days after renewing car insurance, perhaps this might not be a bad idea in future.

Had I innocently been pulled by plod as 'uninsured' then presumably I could have avoided my car being impounded/crushed by simply producing a current valid certificate of insurance.

Tim

[Bleednipple]

24 minutes ago, tim hunt said:

Had I innocently been pulled by plod as 'uninsured' then presumably I could have avoided my car being impounded/crushed by simply producing a current valid certificate of insurance.

Tim

Yes...maybe. Driving without insurance is a 'strict liability' offence ie if you did it, you're guilty. However if (eg) your insurer gave you reason to believe a policy was in force you could argue for 'Special Reasons' which is a kind of mitigation of the offence and MIGHT get you off punishment.

However a lot of people find themselves up the creek because they pay for their policy in monthly instalments but fail to rectify a payment interruption (eg they changed their bank or card). If so, and the insurer has cancelled the policy, it's going to be 6 to 8 points and a sizeable fine.

Usual caveats, get legal advice etc.

Nigel

[YOW500]

CONCLUSION.

Since my last comment, I have had two more connections with the MIB and the DVLA. The MIB assured me that the situation was now closed, and a week later the DVLA told me my car was still not on the MIB database.

Following a letter to the DVLA, CEO, I had an e mail from the Enforcement Customer Experience Manager. He stated in his e mail that "