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Wind noise with soft top


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I have a Duck material soft top, when its up there seems to be a lot wind noise created by the header rail, I think? It doesn't leak water in. The rubber seal is in good condition.

So a couple of questions, 

should there be a seal between the header rail part 713021, or is it just some window sealer underneath?

The header rail is attached to the side rail by a rivet, and a washer, where does the washer go? should it go between or underneath, and should that fixing have some looseness, if I refit with a nut and bolt?

Items 20,21,22,  here  https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr5-6/weather-equipment/hoods-hood-frames-fittings/hood-hood-frame-tr5-6-1967-76.html

John

PS. I know some will say only drive with the hood down, but have done recently a lot of motorway routes, early in the AM chilly!

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Hi John,

 this may not help - many years ago a friend up in Scotlandshire gave me a piece of double glazing rubber seal. it has a triangular cross section.

On my Surrey top TR4A  with the top off the seal tucks under screen frame top cap - it removes the wind noise dramatically.

With the surrey top roof in place the gap is reduced significantly.  No space for the seal but the noise is reduced.

So how big is the gap between the top cap and the screen frame.  Can a seal be pushed in.

 

Roger

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Hi Roger,

I could try your friends idea as well,

I was going to try some duck tape along the gap to see what difference it would make, there are a few gaps between the aluminium strip and the frame, I was thinking of taking out the rivets and putting in some windscreen sealer. 

John

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They are 50 year old cars what do you expect, just live with it after all how many times do you drive with the roof up

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2 hours ago, Paul Hill said:

They are 50 year old cars what do you expect, just live with it after all how many times do you drive with the roof up

The header rail on my TR6 with Surrey top produces far more  wind noise than the header rail on the soft top, and as I use the car all year round it needs sorting. I had TRs when they were new and the TR6 was fairly quiet certainly quieter then most saloons of the day, so in my case definitely room for improvement 

George 

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10 hours ago, harlequin said:

The header rail on my TR6 with Surrey top produces far more  wind noise than the header rail on the soft top, and as I use the car all year round it needs sorting. I had TRs when they were new and the TR6 was fairly quiet certainly quieter then most saloons of the day, so in my case definitely room for improvement 

George 

Hi George,

 which style of frame capping have you got fitted. 

The TR4/4A Surrey has a rail that protrudes way past the window seal - but is needed to hold the roof fabric.

The 4A - 6 convertible style is much shorter and should have less wind noise.

 

Roger

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The capping on my screen is this, originally it had a surrey top, there is quite a gap at the sides where the capping fits the screen surround.  I think I need to take the rivets out and seal up underneath the capping.

IMG_3512 (2).JPG

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1 hour ago, RogerH said:

Hi George,

 which style of frame capping have you got fitted. 

The TR4/4A Surrey has a rail that protrudes way past the window seal - but is needed to hold the roof fabric.

The 4A - 6 convertible style is much shorter and should have less wind noise.

 

Roger

Roger 

My car is a TR6 and the top of the screen frame is as it came from the factory. I modified the soft top for my Surrey set up by unpicking the front seam and removing the flat bar that hooks under the top of  a TR4 screen frame and fitted a TR6 header rail, this works well its very easy to fit and is watertight, but the wind noise has increased.

The Surrey soft top has a beaded leading edge which looks right but I suspect its that that is causing the noise, so my first port of call will be to remove the TR6 header rail, unpick the beaded edge and refit. Hopefully this will give a cleaner leading edge, I am also going to look at the angle of the header rail when it is locked to the screen frame and maybe fit a seal to the trailing edge to bring the front down.

George 

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1 hour ago, John L said:

The capping on my screen is this, originally it had a surrey top, there is quite a gap at the sides where the capping fits the screen surround.  I think I need to take the rivets out and seal up underneath the capping.

IMG_3512 (2).JPG

I agree that gap will produce wind noise, does it also whistle when the roof is down?

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George

I do get a noise when the top is down, but was more thinking it was either the waterpump, the alternator, or the vented disc's whistling, will block it off with some tap and see if I still get that same noise, that will eliminate one of the noise sources. Weathers not so good for the top down at the moment, will try when possible.

John

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The header rail is attached to the side rail by a rivet, and a washer, where does the washer go? should it go between or underneath, and should that fixing have some looseness, if I refit it with a nut and bolt?

John

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Try adjusting the windows down a fraction. My 4A whistles with the surrey top up when the passenger window is fully up but doesn't if it is a fraction lower. The drivers side is ok. You could also try pushing some draught strip under the lip of the header rail when the hood is up to see if that improves things. Experiment with tape to find the location of the whistle before removing header rail. The whistle on mine is definitely at the passenger end.

 

Keith

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/20/2021 at 3:34 PM, John L said:

George

I do get a noise when the top is down, but was more thinking it was either the waterpump, the alternator, or the vented disc's whistling, will block it off with some tap and see if I still get that same noise, that will eliminate one of the noise sources. Weathers not so good for the top down at the moment, will try when possible.

John

Hi John

I have solved most of the wind noise (from the hood:)).

All that was involved was to put a washer under the fixing handels at each screw location, this moves the handels down by 1 or 2 millimeters which is enough to securely clamp the header rail seal. It's a new seal but obviously not quite as thick as the original.

Hope this helps you 

George 

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As well as using a strip of rubber glazing gasket to great effect under the front lip of the header rail on my TR4 like Roger does, I also fashioned a couple of small plugs for the 2 surrey fixing holes in backlight top section. This has more or less eliminated another source of noise when the surrey top is in the boot, as the rushing (well, it is a TR) air passes over the top of the backlight frame.

:D

Mike

 

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On 10/19/2021 at 4:08 PM, John L said:

I have a Duck material soft top, when its up there seems to be a lot wind noise created by the header rail, I think? It doesn't leak water in. The rubber seal is in good condition.

So a couple of questions, 

should there be a seal between the header rail part 713021, or is it just some window sealer underneath?

The header rail is attached to the side rail by a rivet, and a washer, where does the washer go? should it go between or underneath, and should that fixing have some looseness, if I refit with a nut and bolt?

Items 20,21,22,  here  https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr5-6/weather-equipment/hoods-hood-frames-fittings/hood-hood-frame-tr5-6-1967-76.html

John

PS. I know some will say only drive with the hood down, but have done recently a lot of motorway routes, early in the AM chilly!

Hi John! 
I have looked at mine which is as original. The washer goes on the rivet first and the closing of the rivet faces underneath and my header is slightly loose but one has to remember that the fixing is 48 years old! Hope this helps. I cannot take a photo to show you more!

Bruce.

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I've now taken the the top rail off, and I think its not very pretty under there. It seems to have been done before perhaps, as there is some softish putty like material and some hard black sealer, unless the putty material has just gone hard.  Also the original holes in the screen frame have not been used, and some new ones made, think this must have been done at the factory?

So what's the best to put it back on with, I suppose some windscreen non drying material, just in the gully of the capping at the front presume, any recommendations pls.  Is Tiger seal will set too hard presumably?

John

IMG_3528 (2).JPG

IMG_3532 (2).JPG

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  • 3 months later...

Well re fitted the capping strip with some windscreen sealer, but still have the same amount of noise, no air coming in or water, it just seems that the windscreen rubber that is quite proud and the lip of the hood is just not aero dynamic,  is the seal I have the correct one, perhaps there is a better one?

Should the header rail be a loose fit to the side rails?

Anybody got a picture of theirs......

John

IMG_3693.JPG

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I recall the TR Workshop in Lexham Mews used to buy the Spitfire 1500 header rail seal.  As they only worked on TR s……..????

The Spitfire screen capping is almost identical to the TR.

Here is a view and it’s cross section is shewn in the picture too.  Fits in the C channel same as the sponge thing on TR.

http://www.leacyclassics.com/629584.html

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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John,

couple of pictures of mine. No work done on it since I’ve had it but probably was rehab back in 1990’s.

I don’t get much wind noise but general noise from engine, tyres, road etc. Windows up makes a big difference to noise as well when top up.

 

984F03DE-96C2-444E-ABAE-E7D35ABBC39C.jpeg

96D37824-E268-406D-80BB-6050E6F8F17E.jpeg

C0D5652B-0D3B-43A2-B67A-459900194259.jpeg

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Thanks  Martin,   mine just doesn't seem to want to sit nicely like yours, it may be the screen rubber is not quite right, that has never been out, perhaps that has to be done?

Should the header rail be a loose fit to the side rails, mine doesn't have the original rivets, now bolts, and no washers between the header rail and the side, as in the Moss parts book.

John

333219375_IMG_3694(2).thumb.JPG.c07b37bc23277d9b97a6642f3f4dfbc4.JPG

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