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Hi all

I’m re-installing wire wheel hubs on the rear, and using the same studs as for the old hubs. But to me the studs look a bit on the short side, though as mentioned are the old wire hub studs.

Are studs for new hubs longer, or have a thicker flange? ( I don’t have old hubs to compare with)

regards

Kevin

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Edited by boxofbits
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12 minutes ago, roy53 said:

they do look short.

But are they the correct nuts ?

Hi Roy

I think they are the correct nuts with the double countersink or angle. The nut measures 3/8” length plus angles on each side. The funny thing is I’ve never changed the studs, but have in the past changed for a heavier duty driveshaft, and then new hubs. I’m wondering if the flanges of both are slightly wider overall?

I’d think they should be at least flush.

Kevin

Edited by boxofbits
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For me the short answer to your question is that they look too short and yes they are the right nuts.

What happened? For sure, if you don’t use spacers then the normal studs are too long and can interfere with the wire wheels. 
It looks to me that yours have been ultra shortened. 
 

I went in the reverse direction a year ago and changed my wires for minilites - I got p***d off with the cleaning after 25 years. When I had fitted them I hacked off the excess which meant that I had to change the 16 wheel studs for longer onesfor the Minilites.

Easy enough on the front hubs which have the pressed in splined studs, but changing the rears to the original type screwed in ones, which are peened over, meant that the hubs had to be separated.

Unfortunately some insufficient peening has meant that one on each side has already pulled out and seriously benadgered the threads in each hub.

Thanks to some excellent advice on this forum I will convert the rear studs to the pressed in splined type - as and when they need to be changed.

Today was a good day as I finally managed to find a suitable drill piece in this metric country to open the holes in the hubs to what in blighty you call 1/2inch and here is 12,8mm.

Test drilling on a bit of scrap steel plate begins tomorrow - to see if I have got it right……

 

james


 

 

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28 minutes ago, james christie said:

For me the short answer to your question is that they look too short and yes they are the right nuts.

What happened? For sure, if you don’t use spacers then the normal studs are too long and can interfere with the wire wheels. 
It looks to me that yours have been ultra shortened. 
 

I went in the reverse direction a year ago and changed my wires for minilites - I got p***d off with the cleaning after 25 years. When I had fitted them I hacked off the excess which meant that I had to change the 16 wheel studs for longer onesfor the Minilites.

Easy enough on the front hubs which have the pressed in splined studs, but changing the rears to the original type screwed in ones, which are peened over, meant that the hubs had to be separated.

Unfortunately some insufficient peening has meant that one on each side has already pulled out and seriously benadgered the threads in each hub.

Thanks to some excellent advice on this forum I will convert the rear studs to the pressed in splined type - as and when they need to be changed.

Today was a good day as I finally managed to find a suitable drill piece in this metric country to open the holes in the hubs to what in blighty you call 1/2inch and here is 12,8mm.

Test drilling on a bit of scrap steel plate begins tomorrow - to see if I have got it right……

 

james


 

 

I think you’re spot on there James. Mine’s a TR4a so does have the splined studs. Am I correct in believing the TR4 has the screw in studs at the rear for wires or steels?

I’ve taken it apart again and you can see the studs when side-by-side have been cut, most likely for the reason you give, but I’m surprised if the factory didn’t get the stud length right!

Do you know it gets harder each year to talk ‘old money’ in this country too, though most of our road signs are still in imperial Very confusing for a Frenchman! :lol:

Normally get 13mm drill bits in this country through the common retail outlets, but shows usually yield 1/2”.

Well done for your insight, good luck with the drilling, and you’ve given me another excuse to part with some more dough tomorrow!

Regards

Kevin

 

 

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Edited by boxofbits
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Agree they look a bit short although a couple of mine are like that. While re-facing the cone part on some otherwise good splines I did notice that the original forged spline hubs were a tad thicker than new ones from Moss, but this this should have resulted in longer studs... They were often cut down with a hack saw and too short for fear of fouling the wheel but there should be room for a couple of threads showing.

MJ

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1 hour ago, mikej said:

Agree they look a bit short although a couple of mine are like that. While re-facing the cone part on some otherwise good splines I did notice that the original forged spline hubs were a tad thicker than new ones from Moss, but this this should have resulted in longer studs... They were often cut down with a hack saw and too short for fear of fouling the wheel but there should be room for a couple of threads showing.

MJ

Yes, someone’s definitely got hacksaw happy. Bearing in mind the nut is probably 1/2” overall including chamfers, some might only be 1/4” into the nut. I did change the hubs as I thought the splines had worn. With forces in just about every plane on the hubs which have quite a lot of leverage on them from the road wheel,not ideal. 

Kevin

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14 hours ago, james christie said:

Kevin, those studs have a chamfered shoulder whereas those I have just acquired are right angled. Make sure tha’ gets it right, preferably first time!

james

Thats the difference between IRS Hubs and solid axle hubs, IRS hubs need the chamfer.

Stuart.

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10 hours ago, boxofbits said:

Yes, someone’s definitely got hacksaw happy. Bearing in mind the nut is probably 1/2” overall including chamfers, some might only be 1/4” into the nut. I did change the hubs as I thought the splines had worn. With forces in just about every plane on the hubs which have quite a lot of leverage on them from the road wheel,not ideal. 

Kevin

I would just fit new studs for the wheels your going to fit as those are definitely not long enough, correct ones have a slight lead in taper on the nut end to ease fitting of the nut.

Stuart.

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Thanks for your advice Stuart and Billy. You wouldn’t think someone would cut those studs down that far and use them on such an important part would you!

Anyway, ordered a new set of studs and nuts for the wire hubs today.

Regards

Kevin

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never understood why (IMHO) people cut the studs down. Before you do anything just stick a couple of "balls" of Plasticine/bluetak on the flange of the splined hub near the nuts/threads etc and fit the wire wheel on. With all new studs fitted all I have had to do is grind a small angle on the end of each stud and it clears perfectly and there's still plenty of thread left protruding.

And while I'm upsetting people I might as well add that those double faced wire wheel nuts are hopeless, no wonder you're supposed to check them ever 1000 miles, you can't get any purchase on them. I'm running on (from memory) Ford Cortina mk2 nuts. these are smaller than standard TR steel wheel nuts but bigger than the "correct wire wheel" ones. Don't seem to have moved (as I have marked them all) over the last 20,000 miles of use and they clear the back of the hub.

just sayin......:ph34r:

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9 hours ago, Nigel C said:

 you can't get any purchase on them. 

Yes you can, get a six sided 11/16 socket instead of the usual 12 sided then you will get proper purchase and get them done up to 65Ftlbs then they dont come loose.

Stuart.

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7 minutes ago, stuart said:

Yes you can, get a six sided 11/16 socket instead of the usual 12 sided then you will get proper purchase and get them done up to 65Ftlbs then they dont come loose.

Stuart.

Yep, and you torque them to 65lbs with Locktite, and there is no issue.

John.

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