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leak push rod tubes


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Hi there,

by adjusting the valve clearance I noticed my shrunk rocker cover seal AND oil on the push rod shafts.

I wiped the oil proper away - and after only 100 miles it is here again!

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Most likely it it comes from the upper end, because with my PVC valve I have a low pressure on the cover and engine.

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Any idea how to get "the gap" (indeed there is no gap) sealed?

Ciao, Marco

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They are notorious for leaks from there and its difficult to cure, a ball bearing of the right size and a press when the head is off sometimes works.

Stuart.

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27 minutes ago, stuart said:

They are notorious for leaks from there and its difficult to cure, a ball bearing of the right size and a press when the head is off sometimes works.

Stuart.

+1, ...... also with the head off, clean and dry, bung the mouth of each tube with a small cork and run a ring of one of the Locktite compounds (I think I used Locktite 547) round the top rim and allow capillary action to draw the liquid down between the tube and the head, leave for a few hours and then clean off any excess and you should be good to go.

Cheers Rob 

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Hi Stuart and Rob,

thanks for that, so I better keep it untouched.

I know wider tubes of for example steam engine boilers and steam power plants

have been "rolled in" with a tool "similar" like Stuarts bearing ball advice.

This would work with the head not off the engine.

To glue with a 2K glue like Rob's advice could also work with the head in position?

Any more ideas?

Ciao, Marco

 

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1 hour ago, Z320 said:

Hi Stuart and Rob,

thanks for that, so I better keep it untouched.

I know wider tubes of for example steam engine boilers and steam power plants

have been "rolled in" with a tool "similar" like Stuarts bearing ball advice.

This would work with the head not off the engine.

To glue with a 2K glue like Rob's advice could also work with the head in position?

Any more ideas?

Ciao, Marco

 

You might find its difficult to get the area you need to seal clean enough with the head on.

Stuart.

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3 hours ago, Z320 said:

Hi Stuart and Rob,

thanks for that, so I better keep it untouched.

I know wider tubes of for example steam engine boilers and steam power plants

have been "rolled in" with a tool "similar" like Stuarts bearing ball advice.

This would work with the head not off the engine.

To glue with a 2K glue like Rob's advice could also work with the head in position?

Any more ideas?

Ciao, Marco

 

Marco:

I could work, but you need to remove all the oily residue as best you can.  I used some Permatex Green threadlocker followed by a bead of J-B weld around the base of the tube that was pressed flat. Described here:  https://www.triumphexp.com/forum/tr4-and-tr4a-forum.7/oil-leaking-from-head-of-tr4a-motor.1491029/

Subsequently I have had the engine rebuilt, including new valve seats and valve guides in the head. None of that disturbed the tubes and the JB Weld and so far no leaks to speak of. The look. however, is not exactly stock, but difficult to see.

 

IMG_3371.jpg

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Hi Andy,

thank you for that info and the link.

Just to be shure: you (only) did that from outside on the lower end of the tube?

I thought the leak is on the upper end of the tubes and the oil drains down outside?

Ciao, Marco

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----

-

1 hour ago, Z320 said:

Hi Andy,

thank you for that info and the link.

Just to be shure: you (only) did that from outside on the lower end of the tube?

I thought the leak is on the upper end of the tubes and the oil drains down outside?

Ciao, Marco

Yes, only at the base, that's where it was leaking. In my case it was not leaking from the top.

Andy

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15 hours ago, Z320 said:

 

I know wider tubes of for example steam engine boilers and steam power plants

have been "rolled in" with a tool "similar" like Stuarts bearing ball advice.

 

Ciao, Marco

 

Hi Marco, small tube expanders are available, we used them on miniature steam boilers, down to the sizes suitable for these pushrod tubes, however they are expensive to buy for a one of job, but would undoubtedly work with the head in situ. 

Ralph.

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Hi Ralph,

that’s very interesting! How much does yout tool cost and how does it work?

Could you post a photo, please? Is it possible to make the tool myself?

Because of your answer I browsed Youtube and found this (browsing for "roll in tubes"):

Shure, this tool I can't make myself!

German Youtube browsing for "Rohre einwalzen" 

Ciao, Marco

 

 

Edited by Z320
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Hi Marco,

the oil is being pulled out by capillary action.

the tubes, no matter how tight,will leak eventaully. they need to be sealed in when perfectly clean.

Put RTV sealant between tube and head and then squish between two ball bearings as Stuart stated.

 

Roger

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Hi,

by cleaning this area today I found the tubes oily on their full lenght,

I nappied all of it and will see after the next tour what happens.

No doubt, the oil can come from the lower end,

but to me it seams the uppen end leaks more.

Ciao, Marco

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12 hours ago, Z320 said:

Hi,

by cleaning this area today I found the tubes oily on their full lenght,

I nappied all of it and will see after the next tour what happens.

No doubt, the oil can come from the lower end,

but to me it seams the uppen end leaks more.

Ciao, Marco

If you can get the whole area really clean (brake cleaner works well) then dust some talcum powder around the tubes, this will immediately let you see where its coming from.

Stuart.

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Off with the rocker gear and swage the tops of the tubes into the head upper surface/seating area.

  Use a big ball bearing or lathe centre or turn up a cone punch with a spigot on your lathe.

This method has worked for me and the taper punch is still findable in my drifts and punches drawer.
 

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Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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Indeed my idea is to make a very slim cone punch on my late,

I hope this gives high tangential (wedged) forces sidewards and will not push the tubes down.

From reading the interet: the tubes must be plastic deformed while the housing around reacts elastic.

Ciao, Marco

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What are the tubes in your head made from?   Aluminium was used on TR4A.  Steel before that.  
My car has a TR4A head so it has aluminium tubes.  

We used to sell the tubes as a spare part, mostly to owners who had the problem of leaks.   To my mind re punching/swaging them is usually all they really needed.

Peter W

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It's aluminium on the head that is on the engine in the car, and steel on the spare part head that came with an old engine.

Both heads are TR4A heads, I checked this some years ago but don't rember the details (the "platform" on the front-right with the number stamped there?)

Edited by Z320
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I’ll go with that.   Flat area is TR4A.  Obviously both steel and aluminium tubes were fitted.  I have a couple of  NOS  TR4A heads and they have aluminium push rod tubes.

Peter W

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Hi,

this is the tool I made today, a cone 4° (2° on the lathe).

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When I pulled out the first pushrod I luckily noticed I also pull out the cam follower and stopped immediately to continue.

Pulling the cam follower out and loosing it in the engine would bring me in serious trouble.

A new chapter in the book: "needless repair - caused a real serious repairs" :lol:

As you see on my other engine there is enough space ther to loose it - but not to get it back in position through the 16 mm push rod tube.

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A welding wire helped me to hold the cam follower down while I pulled the pushrods out.

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With the tool in position I noticed the tube is slightly oval and not round, perhaps the reason for being not sealed?

3-4 taps with the POM-hammer, each sounds different, the last one solid, the cone fitted tight but was to to pull out with some "patience".

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Ready, I hope this is sealed now (indeed no difference is visible).

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If not sealed, this is my plan "B"

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I will glue them in

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But I hope there is no need to do this, time will tell me.

Ciao, Marco

Edited by Z320
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