harlequin Posted September 4, 2021 Report Share Posted September 4, 2021 As always happens one job has developed into several. I removed the cylinder head from my TR6 to get the valve guides replaced and discovered that a cam follower is in a poor state along with one lobe of the camshaft, this camshaft is a Piper and has only done 20k miles so I am reluctant to replace it with another aftermarket item that probably won't last very long. I am thinking of going for a standard cam but the cams most of the big suppliers sell are reconditioned. So before I go for one of these can anyone advise if there has been any quality issues with recon cams or recomend a supplier George Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iani Posted September 4, 2021 Report Share Posted September 4, 2021 Newman cams are popular George, I'm using one of their cams in my TR & have ordered another one. Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted September 5, 2021 Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 12 hours ago, iani said: Newman cams are popular George, I'm using one of their cams in my TR & have ordered another one. Ian Go Newman they use only new blanks unlike the others which are regrinds and not reheat treated. Moss caught a big claim for consequential damages on their regrind camshafts in the region of £7K. I believe that they now only use Newman? I have a Newman cam and I dealt directly with them and also use their up-rated EN 40 cam followers. They also have a very good name in the Classic motor cycle world for cams! Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harlequin Posted September 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 (edited) Thank you gents for the recommendation, I have had a trawl through t'interweb and Newman do seem to have a good reputation. I have had a look at the Newman website and there is some useful info on the various materials so I now have more of an idea on what questions to ask. Typically Moss was the one big suppliers website that I didn't check, but I now see that they nolonger have stock of reground cams plus they have a deal going on. I shall phone them tomorrow to check if they are Newman camshafts. My CF car has a CP engine which has probably done 150k over the years in my owndership plus whatever was done previously. When I did some work on the engine 20k ago the camshaft looked a bit tired so I changed it to this thing that now looks worse than the original, consequently I am being rather cautious, I am not looking for more power just reliably. George Edited September 6, 2021 by harlequin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted September 5, 2021 Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 There was a time when new blanks for grinding the 6 pot cams were unavailable so regrind was the only option. However reground cams often have a relatively short life. Your 20k life probably fits with this. Not unique to Piper. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted September 5, 2021 Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 If it helps I bought a CP Std cam from Chris Whittor which was reassured was from a blank not a regrind. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 He's a reputable supplier, probably worth a chat with him to see if he's had any issues or changed cam supplier. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DRD Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 23 hours ago, astontr6 said: Go Newman they use only new blanks unlike the others which are regrinds and not reheat treated. Moss caught a big claim for consequential damages on their regrind camshafts in the region of £7K. I believe that they now only use Newman? I have a Newman cam and I dealt directly with them and also use their up-rated EN 40 cam followers. They also have a very good name in the Classic motor cycle world for cams! Bruce. I thought Moss used Kent cams - that's certainly where my TT one from Moss came from. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TRTOM2498PI Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 Go for a Newman cam, based on a new chill cast blank. Also consider their EN40 steel followers. If you're buying the cam from Newman, buy their followers, too. Providing it is installed correctly, and good quality oils are used, you will not have a problem. Don't go too mad with uprated valve springs either. TT double valve springs will be fine with this cam. (If you go for the very hot Newman cams, then suggest their valve springs they suggest (heavier poundage). Mine has been tried and tested since 2011 and 60-70k miles, without a single issue. Checking valve clearances is a good sign, there is virtually zero change when checked (which of course also confirms all good with head and any valve seat recession, too). Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harlequin Posted September 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 15 hours ago, PodOne said: If it helps I bought a CP Std cam from Chris Whittor which was reassured was from a blank not a regrind. Andy Chris Wittor was the 1st place that I looked but at present his site only shows reground camshafts. I phoned Moss this morning and they have both CP & CR camshafts both made by Newman so I shall go for Moss as they have a deal on at the moment. I am drawn to the 280° duration CP cam but as my car runs on Stromberg carbs I wonder if this will be to much, the current cam has a duration of 260° which drives really sweetly and has good economy so maybe the 256° CR cam is a more sensible choice for what I use the car for. (This is very sad, I have used the word "sensible" while discussing the TR) George Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 4 hours ago, DRD said: I thought Moss used Kent cams - that's certainly where my TT one from Moss came from. As I understand they were until the consequential damages claim hit them and all the bad forum press on regrind cams also hit them!!!! then their was the court case against them and suddenly they were out of stock??? .My advice is to steer well clear of regrinds !! I have used Newman for years, use their PH2 and uprated cam followers for your application, its good for PI and carbs. Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harlequin Posted September 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 16 minutes ago, astontr6 said: As I understand they were until the consequential damages claim hit them and all the bad forum press on regrind cams also hit them!!!! then their was the court case against them and suddenly they were out of stock??? .My advice is to steer well clear of regrinds !! That will explain why the Moss chap was so knowledge on camshafts George Quote Link to post Share on other sites
whatmore179 Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 Newman Cam all day. Deal with them direct. steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DRD Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, astontr6 said: As I understand they were until the consequential damages claim hit them and all the bad forum press on regrind cams also hit them!!!! then their was the court case against them and suddenly they were out of stock??? .My advice is to steer well clear of regrinds !! I have used Newman for years, use their PH2 and uprated cam followers for your application, its good for PI and carbs. Bruce. The cam I've got was made from a new blank by Kent cams (c. 2018) - I have all the paperwork to support this. Maybe its the standard cams that were regrinds? Edited September 6, 2021 by DRD Update Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 17 minutes ago, DRD said: The cam I've got was made from a new blank by Kent cams (c. 2018) - I have all the paperwork to support this. Maybe its the standard cams that were regrinds? Years ago I had trouble with a Ford OHC engine where I had replaced the cam with a Piper one as this engine was prone to cam shaft wear, that one lasted only 5K? I took it into work and did a Rockwell hardness test on the lobs. It was harden but not to the right value? I spoke to Piper and all they would say ' Its out of warranty mate ' My reaction since is not to buy any thing from them? I would advise you to do the same! I have heard of other people having the same experience as me in our group! Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 19 hours ago, Andy Moltu said: There was a time when new blanks for grinding the 6 pot cams were unavailable so regrind was the only option. However reground cams often have a relatively short life. Your 20k life probably fits with this. Not unique to Piper. In all my dealings with Newman over the last 40 years they have never supplied me with a re-grind? The reason they have a short life is they grind off the hardness layer when they reprofile and do not re-heat treat the re-ground cam shaft. So you end up with soft lobs? Not a quality product! Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 There was a spell a few years ago when cam blanks were out of supply for the 6 pots so your only option was a reground profile. Whether everyone knew that their cam was a regrind were made aware of it is a different matter! The other issues causing premature cam wear were poor cam followers. The originals were chilled iron and some of the repros were not good. Similarly the impact of "Uprated" springs should not be underestimated. Rock hard springs that help to reduce valve bounce at 7000 rpm are not good for cam longevity. Breaking in the cam is also important. Minimal idling on initial start up then 20 mins at 2000 rpm is said to be important. Likewise oil with inadequate ZDDP content can shorten cam life. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DRD Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 (edited) 52 minutes ago, astontr6 said: Years ago I had trouble with a Ford OHC engine where I had replaced the cam with a Piper one as this engine was prone to cam shaft wear, that one lasted only 5K? I took it into work and did a Rockwell hardness test on the lobs. It was harden but not to the right value? I spoke to Piper and all they would say ' Its out of warranty mate ' My reaction since is not to buy any thing from them? I would advise you to do the same! I have heard of other people having the same experience as me in our group! Bruce. Mine is a Kent not a Piper cam The image below is taken from the Moss website. Edited September 6, 2021 by DRD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 3 hours ago, DRD said: Mine is a Kent not a Piper cam The image below is taken from the Moss website. What you have shown me is a major U turn by Moss as they sold bad cam shafts for years? You only had to read some of the posts on this forum that were posted over the last 15 years. Moss has never been in the for front for Quality, they have always used the excuse that the customer will not pay for quality pricing. There original problem was down to poor engineering practice and is one of many items where they have done a U turn, bearings being another. I don't buy them from Moss as well. Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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