JohnC Posted September 3, 2021 Report Share Posted September 3, 2021 Hi all, I thought I'd share my experience of doing a comprehensive upgrade of my TR6's lights to LEDs. I replaced everything, with a couple of exceptions, noted below. 1. Instrument lights: Straightforward replacement. I went for warm white, but that's a personal choice. I also have blue and red, just to see which I like best (currently trying blue). My panel dimmer has never been any use (who would want to dim the original lights from their all but imperceptible glow?) but I took the opportunity to replace it with a new one inspired by Bob "Lebro" here on the forum. Works a treat, and I may even need it, the new lights are so bright. A couple of observations: The original speedo and tacho have blue filters for the instrument lights. These were very cloudy on my car, so I removed them. Much brighter, and I can get the blue colour with blue LEDs if I like. Not sure about blue yet. The minor instrument gauges are painted pale blue inside. I repainted them white - noticeable improvement in brightness. Again, I can adjust the colour by using different bulbs. 2. Warning lights: I followed the advice of the suppliers and didn't replace the ignition warning light. I gather its resistance is important in waking up the alternator. I replaced the indicator repeater (see 4 below), but it's a bit dim. As if it needs a longer pulse to light up. Still, no worse than the original. The LED oil pressure warning light is great. Bright and impossible to miss. I did replace the high beam warning light but it was so bright (check at night!) that I went back to the original bulb. Appears sadly greenish in comparison to the blue panel lights I'm currently trying. 3. Headlights: Pretty straightforward, although there's a control box that I couldn't fit in the headlamp bowl. It's outside, secured with cable tie. A bit of a faff, but so worth it. I went for the modern bluish white, and I Can See ! Prior to the upgrade I had Osram Nightbreakers supplied via a fat cable and relays. Even so, huge improvement. 4. Indicators: Simple replacement all round, with the addition of a new relay as the original one doesn't work with the low resistance of LED bulbs. The amber LEDs are sooo much brighter. And I can hear the relay! 5. Reversing lights: Replaced with bright white. Reversing in the dark is no longer guesswork. Great. 6. Sidelights and number plate lights: Straight replacement. I went with warm white, and they are still noticeably brighter than original. Not sure the sidelights are up there with DRLs, but better than the original candles. BUT see 8 below. 7. Stop/Tail lights: What a difference, particularly with the stop lights. Really bright. Make sure you choose red LEDs rather than bright white as the colour spectrum of white LEDs will give you a pink colour through the red lenses. BUT see 8 below. 8. Even though all worked *almost* perfectly, I did experience two odd behaviours: 1. With all lights off and ignition on, pressing the brake pedal lit up the brake lights *and* the sidelights. 2. With side/tail lights on but ignition *off*, depressing the brake pedal turned the side/tail lights off. Brake lights did not illuminate (as they shouldn't). Issue 1 was clearly that the stop lights were earthing back through the tail light circuit to the side lights. I investigated earthing, even running a nice thick cable direct from the lights to the battery, but to no avail. To fix the problem I needed to insert a diode upstream of the tail light supply. Issue 2 was solved with a diode upstream of the stop light supply. I am sure YMMV, but this may save you some head-scratching. 9. I have subsequently replaced the reversing lights with dual filament (?) white/red LEDs (which needed new bulb holders intended for stop/tail lights). The red colour is connected in parallel with the stop lights, giving an additional (very bright) stop light. By inserting a diode into the stop light supply to this filament, I'm able to use it as a high-intensity rear light (supplied from a switch under the dash). I'm becoming a dab hand at soldering up a fragile diode into a sort-of robust bit of wiring! I'm really happy with the result. I have headlights that work, I can read the instruments without my passenger holding a torch, and I'm (more) confident that other drivers will see my indicators and brake lights in daylight. In addition, I have high-intensity rear lights, and I can hear the indicators. I was disappointed that the dual "filament" LEDs didn't have protection against the odd behaviour. Perhaps subsequent iterations will do. I used bulbs from classiccarleds.co.uk and bettercarlighting.co.uk. Both were helpful with after-sales support. Gil at bettercarlighting explained why I was seeing the oddness with the new stop/tail lights. Hope this helps you if you're considering an LED upgrade. Cheers, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tom hall Posted September 3, 2021 Report Share Posted September 3, 2021 Thanks for the comprehensive LED update. I can confirm that you should not replace the ignition warning lamp, I did initially and as you say the charging circuit would not switch on unless you excessively revved the engine. Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hawk Posted September 3, 2021 Report Share Posted September 3, 2021 2 hours ago, tom hall said: Thanks for the comprehensive LED update. I can confirm that you should not replace the ignition warning lamp, I did initially and as you say the charging circuit would not switch on unless you excessively revved the engine. Tom Interesting - I have changed all my dash lights to LED and do not have that issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted September 3, 2021 Report Share Posted September 3, 2021 Nice write up. Note I wanted to fit LED headlights in Victoria but was told they are illegal due to the fact that retrofitted LED's are not covered by any ADR. Have the LED headlights been passed during your annual pink slip Inspection? I'd be interested in fitting them if their illegality is a non event in practice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ed_h Posted September 3, 2021 Report Share Posted September 3, 2021 (edited) The ignition light can be converted to LED, but it's not a straight swap. Ed Edited September 3, 2021 by ed_h Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnC Posted September 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Mike C said: Have the LED headlights been passed during your annual pink slip Inspection? I'd be interested in fitting them if their illegality is a non event in practice. Yes. In fact it was the inspector who pointed out the sidelight oddity. Having said that, he’s a very understanding inspector. YMMV. Probably more important is having them noted on your insurance policy. Which I haven’t yet done. D’oh! John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted September 4, 2021 Report Share Posted September 4, 2021 1 hour ago, JohnC said: Yes. In fact it was the inspector who pointed out the sidelight oddity. Having said that, he’s a very understanding inspector. YMMV. Probably more important is having them noted on your insurance policy. Which I haven’t yet done. D’oh! John Thanks, I'm glad the inspectors are taking a sensible approach to LED headlights. I'm paranoid about the large grey kangaroos that live around where I keep the car. I'll add this conversion to my future works list. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Roadrunner Paul Posted September 4, 2021 Report Share Posted September 4, 2021 Hi John Very interesting to hear about your experiences changing to LEDs. I've just done a similar exercise on my TR5 but haven't changes dash bulbs or headlights. I didn't experience either of the issues that you had - my LEDs came from Classic Car LEDs. I did however experience the issue of the indicator bulbs earthing through the dash telltale so all indicators come on at once - replacing with the appropriate LED in the dash as you did cures this. I do have one question please as I'm keen to upgrade the headlight bulbs. I too have Osram Nightbreaker bulbs so it was very helpful to know that LEDs do make an appreciable difference. How does the mounting of the LED driver external to the headlight bowl work? Do you have to drill an extra hole in the bowl for an extension lead? Does the existing wiring into the bowl have to be removed, necessitating pulling out the bayonets from the front wiring loom? I've never seen an explanation of this! Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveB66 Posted September 4, 2021 Report Share Posted September 4, 2021 Paul My experience fitting LED headlights to my TR 4 and 6 is that you have to modify both the existing feed to the headlights and the headlight bowl. The LEDs I have come with and external IC unit joined to the light unit by a waterproof connector. This connector is slightly too large to fit through the existing hole so I had to open this out a bit. To do this you have to remove the existing H4 connector, I also shortened these to connect to the IC unit. All in all well worth the effort for the improvement in the lights. I have noticed that some LED headlights have dispensed with the external IC unit and therefore it looks like you don't need to modify the headlight bowl or the loom. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnC Posted September 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 (edited) On 9/4/2021 at 7:34 PM, Roadrunner Paul said: How does the mounting of the LED driver external to the headlight bowl work? Do you have to drill an extra hole in the bowl for an extension lead? Does the existing wiring into the bowl have to be removed, necessitating pulling out the bayonets from the front wiring loom? I've never seen an explanation of this! I had to have a look at one of the headlights to refresh my memory! Anyway, it was pretty straightforward. The headlight LED unit itself is a direct swap for the H4 bulb. There's some adjustment available to get the orientation of the LEDs in synch with the lens, but I found the setup as supplied was fine. There's a lead from the LED unit to the IC box, with a waterproof connector in the middle. The IC box itself I couldn't fit inside the headlamp bowl so I disconnected the lead, threaded it through the original hole and reconnected on the outside ( I don't remember having to open out the hole as Dave did, but I may have). I secured the IC box to the outside of the bowl using a cable tie (had to drill a couple of small holes for this). To get the original feeds out of the bowl I think I simply removed the female spades from the multi-connector block, pulled them out of the bowl, and put them back in the block. The IC box had a suitable set of male connectors in a block, if memory serves. No mod required to the loom, although I do have a slightly longer than necessary length of wiring in the wheel arch. Hope this helps. John Edited September 5, 2021 by JohnC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted September 5, 2021 Report Share Posted September 5, 2021 Seems like a well thought out conversion kit. Any chance you could tell me the brand and model number. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnC Posted September 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 12 hours ago, Mike C said: Any chance you could tell me the brand and model number. These ones. Sorry, I didn't note the manufacturer details. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted September 6, 2021 Report Share Posted September 6, 2021 Thanks John, I've saved the link. Maybe this will sway the people behind out ADR's: " MOT rules have been clarified from 22.3.21 to allow the use of LED conversions that pass the beam pattern tests for headlights for Class 3, 4, 5 and 7 vehicles (car, private bus and light commercial vehicle) first used before 1 April 1986 " It's really just common sense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Roadrunner Paul Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 Dave Many thanks for your above posting pointing out that you can now get LED H4 headlight bulbs with built in drivers. Thanks to you, I've recently fitted Philips Ultinon 9000 bulbs in my Wipac Quadoptic headlights and the results are remarkable. No need for any wiring changes and a step change in performance. I had them checked with an MOT beam checker and they were spot on - excellent cut off and beam patterns. Philips manufacture their own LEDs which no doubt helps to obtain the required performance. The bulbs are expensive but you do get a 5 year guarantee with them. I bought mine from Auto Bulbs Direct in the UK - check out their website blog for some interesting LED headlight bulb comparisons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilesA Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 Good morning Having just acquired a 6, I am going through a steep familiarisation curve after 11 years with a 3A, which I gradually upgraded over time. I have started a similar list for the new cars, so a question on lighting upgrade (there will be more!). Given the lower power draw of the headlight / side LED's, am I right in thinking that the traditional upgrade of a new fat cable and relays is no longer needed? Thanks Miles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 Correct Miles. The existing loom should be fine for the lower current drawn, as the voltage drop will be negligible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 Hi Miles, But, make sure all the connectors are very very clean. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilesA Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 Hi Rob 10 out of 10 yet again for speed and clarity of response! Thanks Miles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilesA Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 Just now, RogerH said: Hi Miles, But, make sure all the connectors are very very clean. Roger Thanks Roger And it won't be just the connectors on the car that are very very clean (in time)! Miles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DRD Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 On 3/10/2022 at 7:37 PM, Roadrunner Paul said: Dave Many thanks for your above posting pointing out that you can now get LED H4 headlight bulbs with built in drivers. Thanks to you, I've recently fitted Philips Ultinon 9000 bulbs in my Wipac Quadoptic headlights and the results are remarkable. No need for any wiring changes and a step change in performance. I had them checked with an MOT beam checker and they were spot on - excellent cut off and beam patterns. Philips manufacture their own LEDs which no doubt helps to obtain the required performance. The bulbs are expensive but you do get a 5 year guarantee with them. I bought mine from Auto Bulbs Direct in the UK - check out their website blog for some interesting LED headlight bulb comparisons. Classic LED now also do the H4 bulbs without a separate control box. Slightly less powerful than the others but still much brighter than halogens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jonny TR6 Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 1 hour ago, DRD said: Classic LED now also do the H4 bulbs without a separate control box. Slightly less powerful than the others but still much brighter than halogens. Just fitted external and dash LEDs and will be popping the headlights in this evening. Massive difference so far and very easy to do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
michaelfinnis Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 5 hours ago, MilesA said: Good morning Having just acquired a 6, I am going through a steep familiarisation curve after 11 years with a 3A, which I gradually upgraded over time. I have started a similar list for the new cars, so a question on lighting upgrade (there will be more!). Given the lower power draw of the headlight / side LED's, am I right in thinking that the traditional upgrade of a new fat cable and relays is no longer needed? Thanks Miles The existing wiring should be fine as others have pointed out. However, a relay set up does have an advantage in that the switch is now only passing the minimal current drawn by the relay, rather than the headlight current ,reduced though it is. The switches can get a bit temperamental with age. Mike. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 Hi Miles Might be worth also cutting off the old bullet connectors and crimping on some decent new ones as the wire will be oxidised internally and impossible to clean effectively. Replace the rubber connector blocks as they will past it. This will also help reduce any voltage drop further. Don’t be surprised if the copper wire is black with oxidation you might have to go quite far into the loom and splice a fresh piece in. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 Mike and Andy have a point but if the system is working OK with the existing headlamps it will work just fine with leds. No point in doing unnecessary work IMHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilesA Posted October 11, 2022 Report Share Posted October 11, 2022 Thanks all. Miles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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