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Rear wheel studs, again


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This is a topic that has been knocked around in the last few days but I bring it up again to ask further questions.

Some 1 000km ago I had changed the 8 rear wheel studs (screw in type) on my 3A, as I was changing from wire wheels to Minilites. Apparently the peening over on the inside was insufficient, as this week, I have had a stud on each side partially unscrew and destroy the threads on both the stud and the hub. Hellova job to get the relevant wheel nuts off, but I managed it. I had been expecting at the worst to have to remove wheel, brakes, half shaft and hub altogether to get them onto the bench!

The thread on the hub being destroyed I have ordered, from CMS, a set of 1/2in longer pull through studs with splines to be pulled through from the inside, once I have drilled the hub hole to the right size 

Anybody noted the right size of drill for this operation?  Stuart ?

As a temporary expedient I shall leave the other three screw in studs in place. I have re-tightened them up to 65ft lbs. The very fact that I could move them, if only a degree or two, alarms me a bit. I don’t expect any serious imbalance as it is very close to the centre of rotation.

My welding skills are non-existent and two amateur but experienced welders have suggested that access is too limited to put weld blobs on the heads of the inside of the studs.

Is this apparently magical product, JB Weld, a possible viable alternative ?


Your comments very welcome

james

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3 hours ago, james christie said:

This is a topic that has been knocked around in the last few days but I bring it up again to ask further questions.

Some 1 000km ago I had changed the 8 rear wheel studs (screw in type) on my 3A, as I was changing from wire wheels to Minilites. Apparently the peening over on the inside was insufficient, as this week, I have had a stud on each side partially unscrew and destroy the threads on both the stud and the hub. Hellova job to get the relevant wheel nuts off, but I managed it. I had been expecting at the worst to have to remove wheel, brakes, half shaft and hub altogether to get them onto the bench!

The thread on the hub being destroyed I have ordered, from CMS, a set of 1/2in longer pull through studs with splines to be pulled through from the inside, once I have drilled the hub hole to the right size 

Anybody noted the right size of drill for this operation?  Stuart ?

As a temporary expedient I shall leave the other three screw in studs in place. I have re-tightened them up to 65ft lbs. The very fact that I could move them, if only a degree or two, alarms me a bit. I don’t expect any serious imbalance as it is very close to the centre of rotation.

My welding skills are non-existent and two amateur but experienced welders have suggested that access is too limited to put weld blobs on the heads of the inside of the studs.

Is this apparently magical product, JB Weld, a possible viable alternative ?


Your comments very welcome

james

Yes, James, two screw-type rear studs sheared on the same Minilite wheel on my TR3 KST 277, which alarmed me a few weeks ago.

They were replaced by the same (by a local mechanic). Only later, thanks to this Forum, did I get my head around the setup on sidescreen cars.

I'm am thinking of sourcing two rear hubs and getting them fitted in UK with CMS longer mushroom-push fit studs, eventually. Or when I get a chance to come over at Christmas or Easter.

David

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Ordered my studs from CMS and went head on into a Brexit hassle. They won’t send any orders less than 135€ to individuals in Europe as the declarations for the BRITISH authorities are too costly for them. Had to use an address in U K (GB?) who will send it on to me.

Go figure!!

 

james

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6 minutes ago, james christie said:

Ordered my studs from CMS and went head on into a Brexit hassle. They won’t send any orders less than 135€ to individuals in Europe as the declarations for the BRITISH authorities are too costly for them. Had to use an address in U K (GB?) who will send it on to me.

Go figure!!

 

james

Message sent

Peter W

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1 hour ago, james christie said:

Ordered my studs from CMS and went head on into a Brexit hassle. They won’t send any orders less than 135€ to individuals in Europe as the declarations for the BRITISH authorities are too costly for them. Had to use an address in U K (GB?) who will send it on to me.

Go figure!!

 

james

Message sent

Peter W

James, here is one I took to bits earlier……

As you can see, the backs of the studs are quire accessible if you have someone hold the flange against an anvil or heavy metal block and the peen the studs using a rounded end punch.  Or fit splined studs using a hammer and drift.

This method needs the entire axle shaft and flange removing from the axle tube.   6 very fiddly bolts and lock tabs.  As you  have set up the axle end float previously there is no worry there when reassembling.  Just fit all shims back where they came from.

If you had a flange extractor that would definitely NOT bend the flange then said flange could be removed from the shaft end.  
Simple task to peen the stud then. Or bang in splined ones.

Best of luck with that if you do not have the right tool.   
 

Peter W

 

 

 

A2D92789-1F7D-4B25-B148-16CD37C57C8D.jpeg

3953997A-CA79-4198-AC76-D1CAC0031AB8.jpeg

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Good 1st photo that makes your point very well!!

I hadn’t realised how far the hub flange was outset from the six nutted thingy, but, oh ****, with the shimming of the axle last year, I have had enough of busting them apart! 
I’m pretty certain that if I took it all apart, I would replace all 8 with the spline version.
Depth of winter project ……..Maybe

james

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17 hours ago, james christie said:

Ordered my studs from CMS and went head on into a Brexit hassle. They won’t send any orders less than 135€ to individuals in Europe as the declarations for the BRITISH authorities are too costly for them. Had to use an address in U K (GB?) who will send it on to me.

Go figure!!

 

james

I see the expression 'go figure!) used occasionally.

It's not something I'm familiar with. (3 score years and ten)What does it mean?

Roger M-E

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18 hours ago, james christie said:

Ordered my studs from CMS and went head on into a Brexit hassle. They won’t send any orders less than 135€ to individuals in Europe as the declarations for the BRITISH authorities are too costly for them. Had to use an address in U K (GB?) who will send it on to me.

Go figure!!

 

james

I see the expression 'go figure!) used occasionally.

It's not something I'm familiar with. (3 score years and ten)What does it mean?

Roger M-E

Edited by roger murray-evans
duplicated
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TBH James it was that long ago I can remember the drill size but once you have the new studs in your hand its easy to work it out as its just smaller than the splines Just make sure you drill the old thread out perpendicular. The CMS studs are much better steel than any Ive been supplied from the usual suspects and if your leaving the shafts in the car then I just draw them in with a spacer and a nut, dont use a wheel nut but use a high tensile nut as the stud thread is stronger than the wheel nut thread :o you might need to just grind a little flat on one edge of the stud flange to fiddle them in but that wont hurt.

Stuart.

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Thanks Stuart.

I hope I have the requisite high tensile nut in my treasure box. UNF nuts are tough to find in this metric country.

Can you elaborate on « you might need to just grind a little flat on one edge of the stud flange to fiddle them »

james

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1 hour ago, james christie said:

Thanks Stuart.

I hope I have the requisite high tensile nut in my treasure box. UNF nuts are tough to find in this metric country.

Can you elaborate on « you might need to just grind a little flat on one edge of the stud flange to fiddle them »

james

With the slightly longer suds its difficult to fiddle the stud in from behind, to get them at the right angle you might just need to grind a little flat on the flange of the stud so they line up straighter into the hole. You`ll understand when you go to fit them.

Stuart.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Rear Studs cont.

Encouraged by Ian Cornish, Stuart and others, here is how I, a mere amateur, went about the job of replacing the screw in studs by the press-in version.

First refer to the beginning of the thread to understand the problem.

1303351336_TR1.jpg.a56c6c2e5124c6f84e0ed094df2d12c2.jpg

Once I got the two damaged screw-in studs out, I marvelled that so few threads hold our wheel rims to the hubs. If I was doing any kind of competition work, the change to press-in studs with their decent shoulder flanges would be one of the first mods I would do!

It took a bit of courage to get stuck into enlarging out the holes in the hubs to take the press-in studs. Get it wrong and you’ll be looking for a new hub.

Thanks to advice from Stuart and others, and much measuring, I stumped up 30€ for a 12.8mm or 1/2inch cobalt stainless steel bit. The cobalt bit is probably overkill but it was all I could find locally. (The measured diam. of the root of the splines on the studs is 12.84mm and the external diam. 13.24.)

Next fix the hub to stop it rotating and prevent problems when the hand held drill inevitably snatches.1860555486_TR2.jpg.f7210863c418b6fb5f5d9ff33befb97c.jpg

Then take your courage in two hands and get drilling, just make sure you are perpendicular to the hub, adding some drilling oil helps too. It’s worth putting a rag around the back to catch the swarf.

Smooth off the edges at both the front and the back with a file.

Trial fit your beautiful new studs, I had to grind off a bit to allow them to go home fully. See photo to understand why.

976279230_TR3.jpg.367a3aa8d9b08f18f656509c18ff87e4.jpg       1121289964_TR4.jpg.68e197680aee8d638f561551eeed308e.jpg     

The new stud is pulled into place by using a few 12mm washers and a high tensile nut from your treasure box - thanks to Stuart for this advice.

792375469_TR5.jpg.a49f27eec9d7b5d550b88afddbe25d08.jpg

The finished job. The new studs have the same length as the old ones at the business end.

I’ll change the other screw-in studs as and when they need to be done!

 

James

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2 hours ago, james christie said:

Rear Studs cont.

Encouraged by Ian Cornish, Stuart and others, here is how I, a mere amateur, went about the job of replacing the screw in studs by the press-in version.

First refer to the beginning of the thread to understand the problem.

1303351336_TR1.jpg.a56c6c2e5124c6f84e0ed094df2d12c2.jpg

Once I got the two damaged screw-in studs out, I marvelled that so few threads hold our wheel rims to the hubs. If I was doing any kind of competition work, the change to press-in studs with their decent shoulder flanges would be one of the first mods I would do!

 

It took a bit of courage to get stuck into enlarging out the holes in the hubs to take the press-in studs. Get it wrong and you’ll be looking for a new hub.

Thanks to advice from Stuart and others, and much measuring, I stumped up 30€ for a 12.8mm or 1/2inch cobalt stainless steel bit. The cobalt bit is probably overkill but it was all I could find locally. (The measured diam. of the root of the splines on the studs is 12.84mm and the external diam. 13.24.)

Next fix the hub to stop it rotating and prevent problems when the hand held drill inevitably snatches.1860555486_TR2.jpg.f7210863c418b6fb5f5d9ff33befb97c.jpg

 

Then take your courage in two hands and get drilling, just make sure you are perpendicular to the hub, adding some drilling oil helps too. It’s worth putting a rag around the back to catch the swarf.

Smooth off the edges at both the front and the back with a file.

Trial fit your beautiful new studs, I had to grind off a bit to allow them to go home fully. See photo to understand why.

976279230_TR3.jpg.367a3aa8d9b08f18f656509c18ff87e4.jpg       1121289964_TR4.jpg.68e197680aee8d638f561551eeed308e.jpg     

The new stud is pulled into place by using a few 12mm washers and a high tensile nut from your treasure box - thanks to Stuart for this advice.

792375469_TR5.jpg.a49f27eec9d7b5d550b88afddbe25d08.jpg

 

The finished job. The new studs have the same length as the old ones at the business end.

I’ll change the other screw-in studs as and when they need to be done!

 

James

Well done James though TBH unless you were in a hurry I would have done all of them in one go ;)

The idea to use the flanged studs did come from the race/rally guys for just the reasons you pointed out.

Stuart.

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2 hours ago, stuart said:

unless you were in a hurry I would have done all of them in one go ;)

You’re quite right of course!
I have no real excuse for not doing them all - but waiting for the remaining 6 to loosen themselves give me an excuse for not butchering them.:wacko:

My expensive drill bit is wrapped in oilcloth awaiting the next ones

james

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