Jump to content

Ex UK TR2 for sale in Australia


Recommended Posts

Hi all,

Does anybody know anything about this TR2 (TS6885)  for auction here? Apparently imported from the UK a few years ago.

We have no details on it in our Register, totally unknown to us.

https://shannons.nextlot.com/public/sales/94211/lots/19611343

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks a beauty, John! Hard to see, but seems to still have Lockheed differential and rear hubs? Fancy buying a restored 2, owning it for 16 years and only doing 1,600+ miles. Crazy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The car is recorded @ the DVLA (UK Gov vehicle Database) originally registered in the UK on the 5-7-1955, it also had a great registration number TTT***.

This may aid UK memories of the car?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks gents. I understand from someone who has looked at it it may not be as good as the advert indicates but it looks to be an OK example.

Good roadgoing TRs here are selling between $35-55,000. The relatively low auction estimate might reflect its actual condition, that the recommissioning was only an oil change and fresh fuel (no hydraulics or rubber components) and the tyres are 'as new' meaning they are probably 16 or more years old. It has overdrive now but not from new.

We are endeavouring to get the auctioneers to include a TR Register brochure with the car.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, John McCormack said:

Thanks gents. I understand from someone who has looked at it it may not be as good as it looks...

Good roadgoing TRs here are selling between $35-55,000.

relatively low auction estimate might reflect its actual condition

Tyres are 'as new' meaning they are probably 16 or more years old.

It has overdrive now but not from new.

How good is good? This one seems gooder than good.

If I hadn't bought my TR3 at the beginning of lockdown, I would be seriously considering this one.

Body looks totally rebuilt. Some scrapes on the chassis, new tyres, you could live with. Hardly a fault that it now has overdrive. 

David

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DavidBee said:

How good is good? This one seems gooder than good.

If I hadn't bought my TR3 at the beginning of lockdown, I would be seriously considering this one.

Body looks totally rebuilt. Some scrapes on the chassis, new tyres, you could live with. Hardly a fault that it now has overdrive. 

David

No no fault having overdrive, just not original.

I have updated advice it is a good car. My earlier advice was awry.

Interesting to see what it sells for.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If it's only done 1479miles since it was "thoroughly restored" and it's a "beautiful restoration"  going by the underside I would suggest that they were a very hard driven 1479 miles. To me it looks like it's been tarted up for sale, it's not for me.  Cheers, Bill

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, billy l said:

If it's only done 1479miles since it was "thoroughly restored" and it's a "beautiful restoration"  going by the underside I would suggest that they were a very hard driven 1479 miles. To me it looks like it's been tarted up for sale, it's not for me.  Cheers, Bill

Quite possibly. There is a Triumph owner working with the Melbourne Shannon's team who advises it is a good car. You could ask what is the definition of 'good'? Maybe for the guide price it is 'good'.

An interesting discussion on what is good and value, but if anybody has any further knowledge of the car it would be great for our records.

Edited by John McCormack
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, John McCormack said:

Quite possibly. There is a Triumph owner working with the Melbourne Shannon's team who advises it is a good car. You could ask what is the definition of 'good'? Maybe for the guide price it is 'good'.

An interesting discussion on what is good and value, but if anybody has any further knowledge of the car it would be great for our records.

Spot on, John!

We could begin by making the distinction between three "goods":

1. The good of as near original as possible and restored to Concours standards as defined by judging criteria.

2. The good of a restored vehicle for use on modern roads and in modern traffic. In this case, a car not fitted with overdrive when new, but fitted with it at a later date, is "good quality", because you can enjoy the benefits of lower rpm when touring. Or one might consider all the sidescreen TR 2s and TR3s fitted with 1 3/4" H6 SUs instead of the factory-fitted 1 1/2" ones, or even HS6s, with the advantage of spring-loaded, self-centering needle.

3. A genuine barn find which was never rebuilt and which, though rusted in the usual places, is nevertheless an original, numbers matching car with "patina" (a term borrowed from art historians to signify that the vehicle shows its years in the same way that an unrestored 19th or 20th century painting will typically be covered in a layer of dust and other substances, due to its age).

I found a rather illuminating post on this topic, written years ago:

  • "Back in the early Seventies value and appearances weren't too important, as it was all about driving the thing" (Kalamunda, 2013).
Edited by DavidBee
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, DavidBee said:

Spot on, John!

We could begin by making the distinction between three "goods":

1. The good of as near original as possible and restored to Concours standards as defined by judging criteria.

2. The good of a restored vehicle for use on modern roads and in modern traffic. In this case, a car not fitted with overdrive when new, but fitted with it at a later date, is "good quality", because you can enjoy the benefits of lower rpm when touring. Or one might consider all the sidescreen TR 2s and TR3s fitted with 1 3/4" H6 SUs instead of the factory-fitted 1 1/2" ones, or even HS6s, with the advantage of spring-loaded, self-centering needle.

3. A genuine barn find which was never rebuilt and which, though rusted in the usual places, is nevertheless an original, numbers matching car with "patina" (a term borrowed from art historians to signify that the vehicle shows its years in the same way that an unrestored 19th or 20th century painting will typically be covered in a layer of dust and other substances, due to its age).

I found a rather illuminating post on this topic, written years ago:

  • "Back in the early Seventies value and appearances weren't too important, as it was all about driving the thing" (Kalamunda, 2013).

Interesting comment about the 1 3/4" versus 1 1/2" SUs.

My long door TR2 came with a high port head and 1 3/4" carbies. It was a totally rebuilt engine so I left it like that for 1,000 or so miles while I ran the  engine in.

As the car is otherwise a concours standard original car I then fitted a rebuilt low port head and 1 1/2" SUs. The improvement in performance with the smaller 1 1/2" carbies was pronounced.

Some authors have noted that the 1 3/4" carbies and high port head were introduced primarily for top end performance not usually used in road driving. The smaller choke of the 1 1/2" delivers a higher velocity mixture and therefore better burning, so the theory goes.

In my experience the 1 1/2" carbies provide much better torque especially low down and don't reduce power until above 4-4,500 rpm.  Even then it wasn't really noticeable.

And I have a spare 'new' condition high port head and rebuilt 1 3/4" SUs left over as spares for my other TR2 which has that configuration.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Back in the 1960s, my daily-driver TR2 on its standard (but well worn) engine with 1.5" SUs, was capable of pulling from 800 rpm in overdrive top gear (3.7 axle) and accelerating gradually up the slope from Wandsworth to the Common. 

It ran out of puff at about 4500 on the motorway (no speed limits then) and would cruise the M1 at 4200 rpm - a genuine 100 mph.

Consumption was about 30 mpg, which, given the high speeds often used, was good.

It had been converted to disc front brakes (would not have bought it otherwise), so could stop - unlike my first TR2, which was on drums and was very scary!

Ian Cornish

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ianc said:

Back in the 1960s, my daily-driver TR2 on its standard (but well worn) engine with 1.5" SUs, was capable of pulling from 800 rpm in overdrive top gear (3.7 axle) and accelerating gradually up the slope from Wandsworth to the Common. 

It ran out of puff at about 4500 on the motorway (no speed limits then) and would cruise the M1 at 4200 rpm - a genuine 100 mph.

Consumption was about 30 mpg, which, given the high speeds often used, was good.

It had been converted to disc front brakes (would not have bought it otherwise), so could stop - unlike my first TR2, which was on drums and was very scary!

Ian Cornish

Both my TR2s have drums. They both work fine. The daily driver will pull a bit under brakes when stopping from high speed, above 100 km/h. Around town the drums are excellent if a bit maintenance intensive.

Yep, the 1 1/2” SU equiped car pulls from 800 rpm in overdrive even up slope. I haven’t gone over about 85 mph but it has heaps left. Revving through the gears 4500 is quick and easy. In 2nd it will go from 4 to 5,000 in a couple of blinks.

Edited by John McCormack
Link to post
Share on other sites

Very interesting, John, what you say about 1 1/2" producing more torque at the bottom end. It is exactly my point in a separate discussion about Weber DCOE 45s and the need to choke them down. Because the design of the Weber, built in circuits aside, is an empty aluminium shell, you can do this, and it is the equivalent of what you have done by refitting the specified chokes suitable for road use.

I tried to explain this to a rolling road operator over the phone, whose run of the mill trade involves only modern fuel injected vehicles, but he didn't seem to grasp the concept.

Incidentally, I have been wondering whether to opt for 32mm chokes or 34mm. Your comment has made up my mind. So now that part of the spec is decided!

As for the point about braking on front drums, my TR2 was still fitted with them, but aided by a servo, braking was fine, even in rallies.

 

Edited by DavidBee
Link to post
Share on other sites

John - back in the 1960s, with no 70mph limit and a lot less traffic, I would frequently be braking from 90-100 mph and my drum-braked TR2 would suffer serious fade, even in a single application.  Maybe I was a lunatic, but serious fade made me decide that I had to have a TR with disc front brakes.

My second TR2 had discs on the front and I never suffered brake fade, even with repeated applications from high speed and with smoke issuing from the front wings.  Very reassuring.

Ian Cornish

Link to post
Share on other sites

We was all lunatics, Ian

My old TR2 TS6884 had drum brakes alround, only the front ones worked as there was permanent seepage from the Lockheed axle onto the rear shoes.

Didn't stop me from thrashing up and down the road in the late sixties between Aberdeen and High Wycombe where my parents lived. 
Oh the nonchalance of youth!!

james

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, ianc said:

John - back in the 1960s, with no 70mph limit and a lot less traffic, I would frequently be braking from 90-100 mph and my drum-braked TR2 would suffer serious fade, even in a single application.  Maybe I was a lunatic, but serious fade made me decide that I had to have a TR with disc front brakes.

My second TR2 had discs on the front and I never suffered brake fade, even with repeated applications from high speed and with smoke issuing from the front wings.  Very reassuring.

Ian Cornish

I have experienced serious brake fade only once in 46 years of my daily driver TR2.

I had an apartment in Sydney and in the mid 70s one Monday morning I was running late getting to work at the Naval Air Station, Nowra 100 miles south of Sydney. Pelting down the Ousley Pass, google it, about 5 miles steep downhill from the plateau to the coast I applied the brakes at the bottom for the sweeping right hander. There is a side road to go into Wollongong which in those days didn't have islands or anything, just a Y junction.

At about 90mph after 5 miles high speed downhill I applied the brakes. Nothing. Pushed as hard as I could still nothing. I took the straight ahead side road and managed to stop a few hundred metres down. Lucky it was early on the Monday morning with little traffic. Brakes smelt something terrible.

It was early in my TR2 ownership and the car wasn't as well maintained as it is now.

Apart from that I haven't had a brake fade problem. The TR2s have wire wheels and I think that really helps with brake cooling. Disc wheels I expect lead to much earlier onset of fade.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Having owned a TR3A for 26 years and now riding in TR2, I can say that the front discs are a big step forward and not just in terms of fading ! ;)


Admittedly, the effort to be produced is substantial in both cases, but the deceleration power is much less with the drums ... :wacko:

But respect for the origin imposes the constraint ! :D

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Teher said:

Having owned a TR3A for 26 years and now riding in TR2, I can say that the front discs are a big step forward and not just in terms of fading ! ;)


Admittedly, the effort to be produced is substantial in both cases, but the deceleration power is much less with the drums ... :wacko:

But respect for the origin imposes the constraint ! :D

 

Yes, you learn to drive to the car's capabilities.

Having driven lots of sidescreens, around town and for normal driving I reckon drums are the equal of discs if both are unassisted. The drums have a bigger swept area and work very well indeed at normal speeds. A sudden stop at freeway speeds around 110 km/h is where the discs win.

Many disc braked TRs have boosters which aren't as suitable for drum braked cars. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, John McCormack said:

Many disc braked TRs have boosters which aren't as suitable for drum braked cars. 

One of my customers has a servo on his drum braked TR2 and that actually works quite well as it gives a bit more "feel" to the pedal.

Stuart.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I had some alarming moments when my '3 had drum brakes - fading badly when you needed them most !

I found that fitting harder linings to the shoes, in conjunction with a servo (ex Cortina from a breakers yard as I recall) improved them a lot.

I now have discs, & would not wish to go back to drums, original or not.

Bob.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Having only once had total brake fade (in an old VW beetle back in the days when you could hammer along the A40) and shot straight across a roundabout and out the other side without hitting anything, I wouldn't want to go there again.

Rgds Ian

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, stuart said:

One of my customers has a servo on his drum braked TR2 and that actually works quite well as it gives a bit more "feel" to the pedal.

Stuart.

+1 mine had; and the front brakes worked very well.

David

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Teher said:

Servo ? 
 

What for ? 
 

A muscular thigh is enough ! :D

Possibly for you but the 82yr old owner doesnt have that luxury.

Stuart.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

If its UK registration was TTT 257 I have access to photos of it (it belonged to a friend).

I don't think my friend will have access to the TS number to positively confirm it's the same car

I'm sure it was painted Black when I last saw it - if it is the same car of course.

Chris

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please familiarise yourself with our Terms and Conditions. By using this site, you agree to the following: Terms of Use.