Doretti 1259 - progress begins

[Jack F K]

I recently made a visit to the shop working on my Swallow, and had a look at the body as it now stands (completely dismantled, stripped and dipped). There was good and bad news! The alu panels are all usable but several have extensive oxidation damage, and will need repairs - and most have filled repairs which will need beating out and properly fixing. The steel sub-body is... Well, the pictures will follow over the course of this thread (too big for one post!). 

Essentially, it's all repairs, and not all good ones. The body is longer (I think they said almost an inch longer) along one side than the other. The shop estimates only about 30-40% of the steel is fully original, and a lot of the rest is repaired in ways that they reckon undercuts not only the prettiness of the original stampings, but also the overall value of the car - their recommendation was actually to build an entirely new sub-body as a perfect factory replica from scratch, as they think it will take less time and money to do and add value! (They also, being creative metalworkers, think it would be a fun and fulfilling project to build the new replica entirely out of alu, but I'm concerned it wouldn't really count as a Doretti at all then...) I'd welcome thoughts and experience on this front. Looking at the factory works project in the Malvern thread, the front wheel arches for instance look very similar to mine - were they all like that, or have both cars had extensive arch rebuilds? 

The chassis is by and large very sound. There was some corrosion under the flats mounted to the tube, but it was caught by the dipping (and obviously will be checked); and the very front ends are both fully holed, so that will need to be fixing. The outriggers are also not symmetrical (the whole car is angled so that the length difference between the sides worked out!). 

Pictures forthcoming... I'll start with the overall sub-body (panels in the background), and the chassis.

[Jack F K]

There are lots of welded panels, often marring the stamping; the floors appear to have been 80% replaced, especially on the passenger side, where the sills are in decent condition but not attached in the normal manner. The wheel arches are a real patchwork! And you can see a great number of holes drilled into the bonnet members - the panels were apparently reconnected a few times, and I suppose with the misalignment, new holes were needed...

[Jack F K]

There are also some re-done (not entirely successfully) holes riddling the rear of the cockpit. The front of the chassis frames is rusted through, as you can see here.

[Jack F K]

(The good news is the chassis itself, minus the outriggers, is straight, level and symmetrical.) And here are the panels - some repairs evident, but salvageable, I'm advised.

[Jack F K]

Look forward to your thoughts, and hope you're all well!

[Dic Doretti]

          That doesn't look too bad Jack, I have certainly seen worse. I know of a couple of Dorettis which have had new rear inner bodyshells made, the inner bodyshell on the Doretti is simply made with no complex curves and the steel was quite a thin gauge but yours looks restorable. I know of one car built around a TR2 front bulkhead but that is a step too far. 

          I can see the scuttle hoop on the chassis has been repaired, this is common but make sure it is not misaligned. I often weld a diagonal from the top bracket on the hoop to the front outrigger to stiffen it up. The corrosion on the front chassis legs is unusual, although it is a mud trap. The areas to check are the cappings on the chassis legs, the tubes supporting the rear springs especially if the end caps have rusted out and the main chassis tubes behind the front outrigger, also a mud trap.

          Dave Flavell is restoring the factory development car and pictures of the restoration can be seen on the Swallow Doretti Enthusiasts Facebook site. While Peter Greatbatch is restoring 1003 in California and pictures can also be seen on the Facebook site.

          Looks like you are off to a good start.

          Cheers Richard

[Jack F K]

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the reply! 

Quote

I know of a couple of Dorettis which have had new rear inner bodyshells made, the inner bodyshell on the Doretti is simply made with no complex curves and the steel was quite a thin gauge but yours looks restorable.

This is good to know - I think the shop's concern is that getting to and improving all the repairs within the smaller corners etc will take so much deconstruction and reconstruction that it might be shorter for them (and thus cheaper for me) to redo the whole thing. Whatever new metal they would fabricate would be a copy of the original, so no TR2 parts going into this body!! I agree that seems too far. 

re: The scuttle hoop, the diagonal is a great idea. I believe right now it is slightly misaligned, that is part of the list of tasks... The cappings seem fairly solid but will need further checking, and the rear is so far looking good, so that's comforting. 

Just out of curiosity - look at others' pictures, and from how you reference the rear inner body, it seems to me that in a standard Doretti the front and rear bodies were not linked by the floor, as they are in mine. Is this the case? The second picture in my third post shows how they are welded together in mine...

[Gav128]

Hi Jack

Good to see another doretti being restored  I agree that the body is quite straight forward and most have rotted in the same areas as yours made I think in 28swg steel however some cars with new body tubs were monkspath cars without bodys. I am restoring two cars and have a jig that the body tub can be mounted along with the chassis and put on a rotisserie. I hope to save every bit of original steel where possible but more body restoration prices are eye watering these days but originality is sometimes affecting resale values these days. 

Great reading your postings

Regards Gavin 

[Dic Doretti]

Hi Jack

             The floors in a Doretti were flat with stiffeners welded in on early cars or pressed in on later cars. they came in two parts with a join just in front of the seats, joined by bolts and captive nuts. They are bolted to the front and rear bodies, the chassis and the gearbox tunnel usually with captive nuts but these areas are often rotted out, new captive nuts are available. I have pictured a template of a floor, in one piece and the chassis strengthener.

             Gavin, the owner of Monkspath Garage was interviewed and confirmed he never sold any Dorettis complete or in kit form but was the main source of spares for several years. The factory sold around a dozen post production cars in kit form of varying completeness, I know of four of these. Sounds like your restoration is progressing well.

             Cheers

             Richard

[Gav128]

Hi

I think my post is misunderstood Richard the monkspath cars I'm referring to we're built up of parts by owners who had no bodies or poorly fabricated ones  so have had new ones made for their restoration is my reference. Other cars have lost them to change of owners or beyond economical repair. 

Gavin

[Jack F K]

Thanks for the extra detail!! This is great information. 

Given that my rear body sat at an angle to the wheel line when I got the car, and the floors are welded in, I suspect someone executed a slightly poor repair on the floors, and made it a bit permanent. Returning to the original sectional floors might help rather a lot in the realignment of things... If anyone has pictures of correct floors in place, that would be great to see, for the sill structure etc too, since mine is clearly a retrofitted setup! 

I will have more updates soon, I have confirmed with the shop that I'd like to save original steel where possible, as I would like to have as original a car as possible (minus the slight colour change from black to dark blue). 

[Dic Doretti]

Hi Jack

             Some floor details, unfortunately I did not have sills and it was returned to the owner who was going to finish assembling the car. It is fitted with a modified TR2 gearbox tunnel.

             Cheers

             Richard

Edited September 6, 2021 by Dic Doretti
Adding details

[Jack F K]

Thanks so much, that's very helpful indeed!