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Head gasket oil leak - can it be fixed


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30 minutes ago, DRD said:

That's what I do but via a catch tank. I

2 hours ago, brian -r said:

I looked at the racetorations kit , very nice but very pricey for those of us that don't do a lot of track work or massive fast road miles.

Do wonder how a fiberglass unit can be so expensive.

Brian

t's surprising how much oily water gets trapped in it.

I also thought the Racestorations it was very nice but rather pricey. Total cost for my catch tank and adaptor was under £40.

My experience since fitting the vented catch tank is that it collects very little liquid, oil or water. But it does help keep the engine oil tight.

Nigel

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It may be a dumb question but as there are very large passages between the rocker cavity and the crankcase, is there a difference if you vent the rocker cavity rather than the crankcase? There is a large hole at the top of the rocker cover, ideal for fitting a vent. I think some Volvo and Land Rover engines had vent pipes coming out the oil filler cap. Perhaps they were an afterthought to solve a similar problem. Could this be an alternative solution?

My TR6 engine uses oil if pushed on long motorway runs. A small amount of oil often comes out of the small breather hole on the filler cap. This could be poor breathing or worn piston rings, difficult to tell.

Mick

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7 hours ago, brian -r said:

I looked at the racetorations kit , very nice but very pricey for those of us that don't do a lot of track work or massive fast road miles.

Do wonder how a fiberglass unit can be so expensive.

Brian

The hoses are the correct oil proof type, the tank is well designed and fits perfectly by the side of the battery and the flange fitting to the block is billet machined, its a very nice fit and forget piece of kit and it works properly venting all the fumes away rather than the small tanks that still vent fumes into the engine bay.

Stuart

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4 hours ago, Mick Forey said:

It may be a dumb question but as there are very large passages between the rocker cavity and the crankcase, is there a difference if you vent the rocker cavity rather than the crankcase? There is a large hole at the top of the rocker cover, ideal for fitting a vent. I think some Volvo and Land Rover engines had vent pipes coming out the oil filler cap. Perhaps they were an afterthought to solve a similar problem. Could this be an alternative solution?

My TR6 engine uses oil if pushed on long motorway runs. A small amount of oil often comes out of the small breather hole on the filler cap. This could be poor breathing or worn piston rings, difficult to tell.

Mick

Venting both the top and bottom of the engine is always a better idea especially as the rocker vent is small, its reciprocal breathing with both areas vented.

Stuart

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53 minutes ago, stuart said:

Venting both the top and bottom of the engine is always a better idea especially as the rocker vent is small, its reciprocal breathing with both areas vented.

Stuart

+1

That's my experience too. Retaining the rocker cover breather and adding a breather direct from the crankcase via the fuel pump boss has made a big difference to my TR6.

Nigel

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Hi mine is also vented in two positions fuel pump blanking plate and rocker cover flame trap from Halfords and a machined alloy fitting for it into oil catch tank and then vented into inlet manifold gets rid of all the smells I do find water in the catch tank but no oil at the end of summer.

350DE8C2-D32B-4051-8758-3072380BA407.jpeg

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've just ordered a head gasket from Bastuck as Moss don't have any, and many other parts as well, it does look like a good gasket with the extra sealing bands, time will tell.  I didn't think the Payen ones have these bands, not on the last ones I have fitted.

John

IMG_3438 (2).JPG

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On 8/23/2021 at 3:54 AM, Keith Warren said:

Second photo

4B9C014F-7194-4323-8E17-1AF9A5C02E03.jpeg

Goodness! If I fit a similar venting arrangement will my engine bay look like that? Super impressed :)

 

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Following this with interest. I have been concerned about engine breathing contributing to engine oil leaks and looking for a simple solution.

Would there be benefit in fitting a T connector to the existing breather to the plenum and running a hose down to underneath the engine?

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Why not use a PCV valve from the TR4A (and others)?

It sucks the vapors constantly out with a low vacuum

and correctly installed it works as a oil separator and oil return valve.

Sadly this has not been understood by most owners, this is why the PCV valve has a bad image...

Edited by Z320
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30 minutes ago, Z320 said:

Why not use a PCV valve from the TR4A (and others)?

It sucks the vapors constantly out with a low vacuum

and correctly installed it works as a oil separator and oil return valve.

Sadly this has not been understood by most owners, this is why the PCV valve has a bad image...

I'm not sure but I believe the manifold pressure is critical to operation of the injection system. A PCV to the manifold would upset this.

 

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2 hours ago, John McCormack said:

Following this with interest. I have been concerned about engine breathing contributing to engine oil leaks and looking for a simple solution.

Would there be benefit in fitting a T connector to the existing breather to the plenum and running a hose down to underneath the engine?

The problem with this arrangement is that the breather can then suck unfiltered air into the plenum where it's ingested by the engine.Leave out the T piece, block the plenum connection  and vent the rocker cover directly to a discrete spot below the engine - that's essentially how engines were built before the 1960's . The small amount of air being vented into the crankcase did not cause any problems with this older system.

If your TR6 flame trap is clean , do you think it will make a difference to the engine crankcase pressure? I've only had crankcase pressure problems when the vent line has been blocked- in the TR by it's flame trap being  dirty and in other older cars by the PCV being dirty or stuck.

You might need to make the new venting system reversible for roadworthy inspections

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Sorry John,

you may be right (I don't know), I did not notice you own a PI.

Put the PCV valve reduces to vacuum of the inlet manifold extremely down to only 4 cm to 6 cm water column (0.004-0.006 bar) low pressure.

This is my own experience from my measurement some years ago - and no hearsay. So the flow of vapors will be very low.

The water manometer is the low pressure in the rocker cover (indication +/- max 20 cm),

the manometer below is the vacuum in the inlet manifold (indication max. + 900 cm to - 700 cm).

You may  have an imagination of the HUDGE difference the PCV valve causes...

ALzJHZd0RtfVlh4Os0CnOxdqTk_-ZeMgcunXIAhV

And as I know a PVC valve is still common on new cars, the next illustration is from VW from 2001.

SYzqf_z2fbIqBL9GFTMbd6JFOE-KdB7wQFjfqpSe

It's up to a TR6 owner to find out, I own a TR4A.

Good luck

Marco

Edited by Z320
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Hi John,

a simple test to verify if you have “overpressure” in the engine block is to remove the oil filler cap with a warm running engine. Then press your hand onto the opening for say 10 seconds and then remove it. If you feel/see/hear a blow out, you have high pressure. Do this both with the engine at idle and a second time with say 2500-3000 rpm.
It’s not objective, but easy to do.
As indicated above by Mike, ensure the flame trap and connecting pipes/ports are clean. The flame trap can be washed out with petrol or similar.

Cheers,
Waldi

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On 8/22/2021 at 9:12 AM, brian -r said:

I looked at the racetorations kit , very nice but very pricey for those of us that don't do a lot of track work or massive fast road miles.

Do wonder how a fiberglass unit can be so expensive.

Brian

I have one I don't need, should you be interested.

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9 minutes ago, DavidBee said:

I have one I don't need, should you be interested.

You should fit it.

Stuart.

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5 hours ago, stuart said:

You should fit it.

Stuart.

Thanks for the advice, Stuart.

Really? I have replaced it with a smaller bottle, secured further down, and out of sight.

Thing is, it is huge and looked incongruous in the TR3 engine bay. Perhaps because it was fitted high up on the passenger side wing.

Does it really make any difference? You are the expert. The fumes end up in a bottle anyway. Now (in my ignorance) I'm confused!

David

 

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16 hours ago, Waldi said:

Hi John,

a simple test to verify if you have “overpressure” in the engine block is to remove the oil filler cap with a warm running engine. Then press your hand onto the opening for say 10 seconds and then remove it. If you feel/see/hear a blow out, you have high pressure. Do this both with the engine at idle and a second time with say 2500-3000 rpm.
It’s not objective, but easy to do.
As indicated above by Mike, ensure the flame trap and connecting pipes/ports are clean. The flame trap can be washed out with petrol or similar.

Cheers,
Waldi

Thanks Waldi, and Mike. I cleaned the flame trap yesterday for the first time since I bought the car, knowing the previous owners maintenance I doubt it had been cleaned for twenty years. 

It didn't seem to prevent air flow when I blew through it before I cleaned it but a lot of oily secretions were in the petrol I cleaned it with so it might make a difference.

I assume the trap is positioned so it drains back into the rocker cover, not into the plenum?

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17 hours ago, Z320 said:

Sorry John,

you may be right (I don't know), I did not notice you own a PI.

Put the PCV valve reduces to vacuum of the inlet manifold extremely down to only 4 cm to 6 cm water column (0.004-0.006 bar) low pressure.

This is my own experience from my measurement some years ago - and no hearsay. So the flow of vapors will be very low.

The water manometer is the low pressure in the rocker cover (indication +/- max 20 cm),

the manometer below is the vacuum in the inlet manifold (indication max. + 900 cm to - 700 cm).

You may  have an imagination of the HUDGE difference the PCV valve causes...

ALzJHZd0RtfVlh4Os0CnOxdqTk_-ZeMgcunXIAhV

And as I know a PVC valve is still common on new cars, the next illustration is from VW from 2001.

SYzqf_z2fbIqBL9GFTMbd6JFOE-KdB7wQFjfqpSe

It's up to a TR6 owner to find out, I own a TR4A.

Good luck

Marco

Thanks Marco. Australia received the full UK spec PI cars back in the day.

There are a lot of US imports with carbies here and some PI cars that were converted to carbies in the days when the PI was unreliable i.e. before Bosch pumps became common.

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1 hour ago, John McCormack said:

Thanks Waldi, and Mike. I cleaned the flame trap yesterday for the first time since I bought the car, knowing the previous owners maintenance I doubt it had been cleaned for twenty years. 

It didn't seem to prevent air flow when I blew through it before I cleaned it but a lot of oily secretions were in the petrol I cleaned it with so it might make a difference.

I assume the trap is positioned so it drains back into the rocker cover, not into the plenum?

I guess if you have the room to mount it close to vertically so it drains back into the rocker cover it will stop it filling up the screen to the mounting hose level with oil . To be honest I can't recall seeing much oil condensed in mine.

 

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Hi John,

Yes, ideally the flame trap should be self-draining back to the engine, but the connection to the valve cover is horizontal and the rubber pipes are straight, not angled, so the ideal orientation (vertical) cannot be achieved unless you modify things. To help the self-draining, I made the pipe from flame trap to plenum a bit longer, so it bends more upwards. Now at least the condensed oil (mist) in the second pipe drains back to the engine.

I installed a new flame trap during my resto, it appeared to be good quality and is relatively cheap.

Cheers,
Waldi

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13 hours ago, DavidBee said:

Thanks for the advice, Stuart.

Really? I have replaced it with a smaller bottle, secured further down, and out of sight.

Thing is, it is huge and looked incongruous in the TR3 engine bay. Perhaps because it was fitted high up on the passenger side wing.

Does it really make any difference? You are the expert. The fumes end up in a bottle anyway. Now (in my ignorance) I'm confused!

David

 

They do make a difference in keeping your engine cleaner.

Stuart.

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