Dipstick location

[kiwi-jim]

Looking at a friends TR4 yesterday and realised his dipstick was located to the rear of the oil filter assembly, where as on my 3 and 4 it is forward of the oil filter plus all the moss catalogs and photos I see on the web have shown the dipstick forward of the filter.  Does he have an unusual block or is this normal?    Just wondering 

cheers Jim 

[Hamish]

I think ( others will know!!)

that what you describe is a feature of the Standard Vanguard engine 

 

[Ralph Whitaker]

+1

Ralph

[John Morrison]

+2

[RogerH]

7 hours ago, kiwi-jim said:

Looking at a friends TR4 yesterday and realised his dipstick was located to the rear of the oil filter assembly, where as on my 3 and 4 it is forward of the oil filter plus all the moss catalogs and photos I see on the web have shown the dipstick forward of the filter.  Does he have an unusual block or is this normal?    Just wondering 

cheers Jim 

Is there an engine number stamped on the side near the ignition coil. This may give a clue.

 

Roger

[ctc77965o]

In most Triumph TRs the dipstick is located in the driver's seat, or sometimes by the computer keyboard.

 

;-)

[Motorsport Mickey]

It all depends upon the head stud size. If they are distinctly weedy looking 7/16th studs the block with it's dip stick position is a Standard Vanguard unit as Hamish says. If however the headstuds are 1/2" TR size with the "abaft" of the of the oil filter position the block will be from the somewhat rare Standard Vanguard "Sportsman" car which from memory had about 1000 examples.

The block is eminently usable in the TR and I used one when winning in my 1987 season racing in the Register, combined with Rover V8 pistons (poor mans 89mm conversion) along with 200 thou machined off the block deckface to adjust to the lower piston compression height of the Rover pistons.

Mick Richards  

[kiwi-jim]

Interesting Thanks for the info.   Will check the stud thickness next.  I’m sure he will want a sportsman block vs the standard vanguard…….just sounds better 

[Motorsport Mickey]

Interestingly the Vanguard name was adopted by Standard as a tribute to the last British Battleship, HMS Vanguard. Naval authorities were approached for approval before the name was given to the new Standard car, of course I only just found that out when I'm sure all the clever buggers here knew it allready.

Mick Richards

[Ralph Whitaker]

1 hour ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

It all depends upon the head stud size. If they are distinctly weedy looking 7/16th studs the block with it's dip stick position is a Standard Vanguard unit as Hamish says. If however the headstuds are 1/2" TR size with the "abaft" of the of the oil filter position the block will be from the somewhat rare Standard Vanguard "Sportsman" car which from memory had about 1000 examples.

The block is eminently usable in the TR and I used one when winning in my 1987 season racing in the Register, combined with Rover V8 pistons (poor mans 89mm conversion) along with 200 thou machined off the block deckface to adjust to the lower piston compression height of the Rover pistons.

Mick Richards  

Is it basically a TR spec engine then in the Sportsman, with strengthened block?.

Incidentally watched  the Doctor Blake Mysteries on Friday, first time ever, and the whole episode was full of Vanguards, phase 1 and 2 saloons, a phase 1 Ute, and a pre war Standard saloon.  Guess there must be loads of Standard products still about in Australia

Ralph

Edited August 8, 2021 by Ralph Whitaker

[Motorsport Mickey]

1 hour ago, Ralph Whitaker said:

Is it basically a TR spec engine then in the Sportsman, with strengthened block?.

Incidentally watched  the Doctor Blake Mysteries on Friday, first time ever, and the whole episode was full of Vanguards, phase 1 and 2 saloons, a phase 1 Ute, and a pre war Standard saloon.  Guess there must be loads of Standard products still about in Australia

Ralph

Been 34 odd years since I built it, but as I remember the studs were 1/2" as said but all were the short stud length. The Sportsman and TR2s were both in build in 1956 and observing warping and cracking upon some TR2 head stud holes caused by the block flexing, TRiumph changed the lengths of the inner studs (but not the centre studs) the 4 studs being fixed much deeper into the block and tying the block carcass much more stiffly to the head.  

"Is it basically a TR spec engine then in the Sportsman, with strengthened block?." ...no the wrong way around. Unless the Sportsman had the longer studs fitted (which I can't remember) it's still not as strong as a TR block. If I could find my copy of "Technicalities" written by Ian Cornish and Ian Gibson going back decades I'd research into what was written there.

Mick Richards

[ianc]

This is from my articles in TR Actions 241 & 242 ((March & May 2010), entitled "Whence came the TR's 4-pot engine"

Problems and Solutions

In two articles in The Autocar in April 1955, John Rabson described the development of the TR2.  The first article detailed the considerable number of changes required to the Vanguard engine in order to create a sports car engine which was as thoroughly reliable and tough as that of the Vanguard.

1.                  Head Gasket: to cope with the higher compression ratio, a considerably greater torque (increased from 60-65 lbf.ft to 100-105 lbf.ft) had to be applied to the head nuts.  This caused the upper surface of the block to lift around the studs and, as a consequence, the head gaskets blew.  Solution (see Figure 2): the block casting was modified so that the studs screwed into the base of the block (i.e. the upper part of the crankcase chamber), thereby putting the water jacket into compression rather than tension.  In addition, the extra torque on the head nuts squashed the figure of 8 seals at the base of the liners to such an extent that the small upstand of the liners above the block was lost, which caused the head gasket to blow!  A change of the figure of 8 seals, from a soft material to copper, solved the problem.  As a further precaution (remember that the liners should sit only a few thousands of an inch above the top of the block), production tolerances on the various components were reduced.

 

Figure 2 – Location of Head Stud Bosses:

          Vanguard (left) and TR (right)

[Lebro]

Only 4 of the head studs go deep. I guess that was enough.

Bob