Ian Vincent Posted July 29, 2021 Report Share Posted July 29, 2021 I have a set of nearly new wire wheels running on nearly new splined hubs. Both were supplied by MWS. By nearly new I mean less than 5000 miles. There is a small amount of play between the splines and the wheel so that when I go from forward to reverse or even in overrun sometimes I get a slight ‘clonk’. Is there a recommended way of dealing with this? Should I just hammer the locking nuts up tighter or maybe even a trace of coarse grinding paste on the cones? Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trchris Posted July 29, 2021 Report Share Posted July 29, 2021 Hi Ian Is it all wheels that seem to have free play? if you can feel slight play in the rears only are you sure its not the drive shaft splines? Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harlequin Posted July 29, 2021 Report Share Posted July 29, 2021 Ian It's worth checking that the studs for the splined hubs are not a bit to long and preventing the wheel from seating on the conical part of the hub George Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted July 29, 2021 Report Share Posted July 29, 2021 Make sure the tapered mating faces of the hub and wheel are dry. Grease can find its way from the splines onto them. Then give an extra belt with the copper hammer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted July 29, 2021 Report Share Posted July 29, 2021 Also make sure its the hub on the splines and not the hub itself loose on the narrow nuts. John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted July 29, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2021 Thks for the replies. It’s definitely the wheels on the splines. I have previously had hub come loose on the studs and felt the effect on the car’s steering. Nowadays the studs are tightened to 65 lbs ft with Loctite 270 used as an additional belt and braces guarantee. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted July 29, 2021 Report Share Posted July 29, 2021 Hi Ian, torque the center nuts up with 300 Nm. They are not self tightening like some folk may tell you. The splines don't allow this - as they also don't allow to slack the center lock nuts when you brake. Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ali King Posted July 29, 2021 Report Share Posted July 29, 2021 Ian, Just a possibility ... I recently had an issue with very slightly 'loose' wheels, so I looked into it closely and I think I have 'mainly' solved it by tightening the bearings up a bit - they were slightly loose. But, I took the offending wheel off and put the spinner on counting how many half turns until fully tight. It was about 13 (not easy to measure accurately). When I put the wheel back on I counted about, err 12 1/2, or maybe slightly more turns until tight. So I may be just ok in terms of getting the wheel clamped up, or I may not. Whatever, it is too close for my liking. Can anyone tell me which part of the wheel 'hub' (i.e the hub on the wheel which the spokes are laced to) that the spinner is supposed to clamp against - I assume the tapered bit? Ali. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted July 29, 2021 Report Share Posted July 29, 2021 Yes, the tapered bit, it's the taper which keeps the spinner from unwinding it's self. Should be a right hand thread on the left side, & vica versa. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John L Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 I would also add, only tighten the spinner with the wheel off the ground, to make sure it centres on the cone properly, I use a hard rubber mallet to tighten the spinner the copper ones tend to damage the spinner. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 Just now, John L said: the copper ones tend to damage the spinner. John Thats why you should have a copper and hide mallet, use the hide side. Rubber mallets dont really give you enough of a hit Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John L Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, stuart said: Rubber mallets dont really give you enough of a hit Stuart. Depends how big and heavy it is John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 I'm happy with the octagon nuts and a selfmade lever tool. 60 cm long x pull as strong as I can (50 kg) = 300 Nm. To safe my back I pull from the "please marry me" position Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 Bob's note is VERY important. If the adaptors and wheels are fitted to the wrong side of the car, they will loosen themselves - and the wheel may even fall off (ask Paul Hogan!) If you grip the spinner and imagine rolling the car forward, it should be tightening. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 Are your wheels painted or chromed Ian? If painted, are both the conical surfaces clear of paint? Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gary Flinn Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 One thing I've always wondered about wire wheels is if you reverse fast (Like on a Auto-solo event) will the wheels loosen and come off!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 Quite possibly !! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 But you would need to reverse some considerable distance and at high velocity! Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gary Flinn Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 Ok thanks chaps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deggers Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 (edited) On 7/29/2021 at 1:34 PM, Ian Vincent said: . . . when I go from forward to reverse or even in overrun sometimes I get a slight ‘clonk’. Some years ago, I read this on another classic car forum, and made a note of it : "A lack of lubrication can prevent the spinner from fully tightening without some serious hammer bashing. I've experienced this twice on cars that had a very odd creaking coming from the wheels. One was a front that creaked / clonked while turning, one a rear that lightly clunked on acceleration. A bit of grease on the spinner taper and on the outer edge of the wheel hub cured the problem on both cars, and allowed the spinners to tighten farther with less effort than before. This will hold the wheel more securely. Remember the purpose of the taper on the spinner is to locate the wheel (precisely centred) over the hub, so it does need to be fully seated." And also this, from MWS: When putting a centre-lock wheel onto a splined hub, the splined area inside of the wheel centre must be greased to ease the wheel on and prevent the two surfaces corroding together. The wheel is secured onto the hub with a spinner. The spinner should always tighten towards the rear of the vehicle; this ensures that as the wheel turns whilst driving the spinner tightens and locks into place. There are no recommended torque settings for spinners, and the exact number of turns will vary from one vehicle to the next. Do not over-tighten spinners as this will damage the threads and ears and make them more likely to work loose. Cheers, Deggers Edited July 30, 2021 by Deggers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted July 30, 2021 Report Share Posted July 30, 2021 (edited) Grease on the splines is always a problem because it will be pushed on the cones. Grease what ever you want to slide, and keep propper free from grease if you want not. A mist of oil/grease on the splines is more than enough - as often we put this wheels off and on. Torque them up with 300 Nm, for 250 - 300 hp with 500 Nm. 300 Nm in not that much.. Edited July 30, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnC Posted August 4, 2021 Report Share Posted August 4, 2021 On 7/30/2021 at 6:51 PM, stuart said: Thats why you should have a copper and hide mallet, use the hide side. Rubber mallets dont really give you enough of a hit Even better is a dead-blow hammer. I use a plastic-faced one, FWIW. No bounce, no damage, nice thonk On the main subject, in spite of the advice of others I respect on this thread,I have always followed the advice from the spline and wheel supplier (as quoted by Deggers). Copperslip on mating cones (btw wheel and stub axle, and btw spinner and wheel). Grease on splines. Haven't had a problem in 35 years. If I heard a clonk as described, I'd be suspecting the spinners aren't fully clamping the wheels, or *very* worn splines (visible and identifiable using diagrams on manufacturers' websites). There is always going to be a small amount of play in the splines, but it's the cones that hold everything solid. I think previous posters have covered the bases (e.g., over-long studs) apart from rotating the wheels around the car. Or possibly contacting MWS. It's not unknown for manufacturers to supply a bad batch of a part and who knows? Maybe MWS have suffered that from their supplier. If the cones on wheel or stub were a little out then they wouldn't tighten properly. Hope you resolve the problem. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted August 5, 2021 Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 I have found that the spinners need to be tight. Not just on my cars but on other Register members cars. The spinners won't tighten enough as you drive to secure the wheel on the cone. It will loosen if you put the hubs on the wrong side but I've found it a myth that they will tighten enough to secure the wheel. On my original car I bought one of those wood tools to put over the spinner to protect it. It works well to get the wheels tight and protect the spinner ears. Another problem is that the spinners will stretch over time, maybe a long time, but they will stretch. Some years ago I noticed that my spinners (possible 40 or more years old at the time) were almost touching the spokes and other cars weren't. I replaced the spinners and wheel wobble problem solved. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted August 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 Thks for all the additional comments and advice. I haven’t had a chance to try any yet, too many other tasks to finish for SWMBO. Maybe this coming weekend. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted August 5, 2021 Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) Wise boy Edited August 5, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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