Willie Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 Hi Everyone. I had a shock yesterday whilst attempting to confirm that the crankcase breather on my TR4 was not blocked. I was lying under the car [on wheel ramps] turning a looped piece of piece of welding rod up the breather pipe when I was showered with fine dry debris. I switched to a bottle brush and the debris got greasier. As I cleaned the brush, particles accumulated in the sink. Attached pic shows what happened when I applied a magnet! Is this normal? Engine is sound. Major overhaul just under 25,000 miles ago and regular oil & filter changes. I didn't remove the breather pipe as yet as I don't feel confident to take on the clutch slave cylinder, and I don't want to risk forcing the debris into the sump. Best wishes Willie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 Maybe the engine builder did not supply the breather and the installer of the engine just refitted the unwashed old one that came off. Simple task to remove the breather assy. Undo sump bolt, slack the nut and bolt that holds the attachment tag and pull the entire breather pipe sideways and out. A little twist may even help. If it will not come out do not get over excited with levers a hammers. The thing is just a push fit in the block. Wriggle, rock, twist, pull sideways. Gently does it. Any muck or debris should remain in the breather pipe rather than drop into the block. There is a baffle in the block and the breather is fed through its own bore vertically from the rear rh corner of the block/sump area. See photos. Once out give it a thorough cleaning with said bottle brush, and pour cleaner fluid through. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Willie Posted July 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 Thanks Peter. I don't have a shot of it, but it looked to me a if the actuating rod from the clutch slave blocked access to the sump screw. Sounds as if I am incorrect! Willie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Willie said: Thanks Peter. I don't have a shot of it, but it looked to me a if the actuating rod from the clutch slave blocked access to the sump screw. Sounds as if I am incorrect! Willie The support rod for the slave plate is next to it instead. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Willie Posted July 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 Thanks Stuart. In my head the bracket was held by sump screws..... Doh! I've got it now. I'll feed back on findings when the pipe is removed and cleaned. Best wishes Willie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malbaby Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 As a matter of interest....Can anyone unequivocally advise that the crankcase breather tube does make a difference even if there is a breather in the rocker cover. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted July 28, 2021 Report Share Posted July 28, 2021 9 hours ago, Malbaby said: As a matter of interest....Can anyone unequivocally advise that the crankcase breather tube does make a difference even if there is a breather in the rocker cover. I could be wrong here, but I thought it was either one or the other. Early cars had the crankcase breather only but nothing on the rocker box (apart from the wire gauze in the oil filler cap), later cars had closed circuit breathing from the rocker box and the hole in the block was blocked off and a different sealed oil filler cap. On the early cars the forward motion must produce a partial vacuum on the end of the lower breather pipe, drawing fumes out of the engine, whilst the mesh in the oil filler cap allows new air in. On the later system where the rocker box has a pipe connected to the inlet manifold you do not want loads of air entering the engine otherwise you are effectively causing an air leak into the inlet manifold, weakening the mixture, and probably drawing in lots of oil too. Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 28, 2021 Report Share Posted July 28, 2021 10 hours ago, Malbaby said: As a matter of interest....Can anyone unequivocally advise that the crankcase breather tube does make a difference even if there is a breather in the rocker cover. They are being retro fitted quite a lot now or the plug is being removed and then piped to a catch tank Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted July 28, 2021 Report Share Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) "As a matter of interest....Can anyone unequivocally advise that the crankcase breather tube does make a difference even if there is a breather in the rocker cover." Absolutely ! I believe you will not be able to find a 4 cylinder racer that does NOT use the bottom expirator from the crankcase. It's a no brainer, the fumes are expressed outwards from the crankcase at the bottom of the engine into the breather container by the internal engine compression saving blowing engine seals at various points and allowing cleaner running. It works just as well on roadgoing cars also, why wouldn't you ? Mick Richards Edited July 28, 2021 by Motorsport Mickey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4aJim Posted July 28, 2021 Report Share Posted July 28, 2021 My TR4A has a TR4 block breather pipe that was installed by the PO. He also removed the TR4A PCV system, and capped the tube on the rocker cover. However it does have the TR4A style vented oil cap. Running in this config, I’ve never had a issue with oil loss (well other than “normal” ). Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Willie Posted July 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2021 Breather pipe removed and cleaned. More debris in 90 degree angle as pipe exits block. Shot of that deposit and reaction to magnet! Thanks to all contributors. We are entered in PoO at Malvern, and I would be delighted to meet any of you attending. Best wishes Willie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MichaelH Posted July 28, 2021 Report Share Posted July 28, 2021 +1 for crank breathers If the crank case isn't vented it tends to blow oil out even more than the average TR Michael /h Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted July 28, 2021 Report Share Posted July 28, 2021 The appearance of iron particles attracted to a sump magnet is misleading! Under the influence of the magnetic field, they look like spikey needles, but if you pull them off with your fingers you will find that they are as fine as face powder! JOhn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Willie Posted July 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2021 Agreed, John. That’s how it was. Weird how it collects there. Willie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted July 28, 2021 Report Share Posted July 28, 2021 A magnetic tipped sump plug is Triumph part number 155660 here is one for sale. https://www.ejward.co.uk/new-parts/engine-gear-box-and-servicing/engine-and-service-parts/magnetic-sump-plug.html Cheers Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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