John McCormack Posted August 5, 2021 Report Share Posted August 5, 2021 3 hours ago, NCS_TR3A said: Ralph, Way off topic, but what did you think of the Morgan tour. I've never done it but it does interest me and interested to get your opinion for the tour. Neil PS not planning to sell the TR3A and switching to Morgan My wife and I did the Morgan factory tour in 2013. It was a fantastic day. Afterwards I spent months trying to figure out how to buy one and avoid both VAT and our GST, only to find the architects of both schemes had talked to each other and you can't avoid both. I know why the Morgan production rate is so low, the workers spend half their time talking with the enthusiasts on the tour. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted August 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 11 hours ago, DavidBee said: Strictly speaking, you don't even really need a pressure regulator with SUs. My previous TR, a 2 with a TR4 engine, distributor and HS6s, didn't. David If you have an original pump putting out the correct 1.25 to 2.5 psi you don`t need a regulator as you say, my problem was the 5.5psi coming from the aftermarket pump. Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted August 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, NCS_TR3A said: Hi Ralph, Mine is presently running well but I recognise the symptoms you have described. I'm not sure how I fixed mine (it might be a different pump) and think I will test the fuel presssure. Out of interest what fuel regulator have you used and were have you placed it. Thanks, Neil 11 hours ago, NCS_TR3A said: Ralph, Way off topic, but what did you think of the Morgan tour. I've never done it but it does interest me and interested to get your opinion for the tour. Neil PS not planning to sell the TR3A and switching to Morgan Hi Neil, I placed the regulator right next to the carb, I was able to bend my copper fuel pipe enough to fit it without having to cut the pipe. See photo. I looked at various ones, but some are quite large and would really need to be fixed to the inner wing with consequent re plumbing, so went for the smallest I could find. It came as a kit with 2 different sized adapters to fit to the body and 4 short bits of fuel pipe {2 of each size) and 8 spring type hose clamps, all for under £20. I checked it for pressure and found the markings on the regulator to be fairly accurate, set mine to 1.5 psi. The Morgan tour was interesting, but probably not for the reasons you expect. Any visions of craftsmen hand making the cars is to some extent not true now, and it is more assembly of bought in components. As examples, the chassis are now bonded alloy complete tubs, inner wings, bulkheads, floors and sill structures, all made elsewhere and bought in. Same goes for the front and rear wings which are pressure formed at another factory and bought in. Wood is still used for the body tub, all cnc milled, and the doors, bonnet, front rad shroud, etc are still hand made on site, so craftsmen are still employed. The new owners have increased production to get the waiting list down from 8 years to only 1, mainly by sourcing more bought in parts, although at the moment they are running at one third of normal rate with a lot of the staff furlowed due to shortages of parts in the supply chain. They have a small museum area with some original JAP powered three wheelers, an early +4 Ford powered 3 wheeler, and a replica of the first ever Morgan 3 wheeler. Would I buy one? good question. Not one of the new ones unless my premium bonds came good, the modern BMW engines are far too complicated for my tastes, so many pipes and wires you cannot even see the engine. I liked a 25 year old +4 with only 16000 miles on it for £40k, my daughter preferred the V8 squint eyed one for £240k, and would have driven the Aeroline home if she could have stumped up the £450k. Ralph Edited August 6, 2021 by Ralph Whitaker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted August 6, 2021 Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 I notice that you have a small piece of 15mm copper pipe in your heater connection. The valve on my heater never closes completely, even when i ram it home inside the engine compartment. To stop the bleed of hot water, which raised the cabin temperature in the summer to inferno level, I inserted a tap of the type used by plumbers to cut off water supply to taps, into that heater line. It has a small handle, so no need for screwdriver to operate it. Makes the cabin temperature more bearable in summer. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted August 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, ianc said: I notice that you have a small piece of 15mm copper pipe in your heater connection. The valve on my heater never closes completely, even when i ram it home inside the engine compartment. To stop the bleed of hot water, which raised the cabin temperature in the summer to inferno level, I inserted a tap of the type used by plumbers to cut off water supply to taps, into that heater line. It has a small handle, so no need for screwdriver to operate it. Makes the cabin temperature more bearable in summer. Ian Cornish Yes, decided to fit the TR4 heater valve and had to cut and extend the heater pipe on that side. As you say it does not completely shut off when the control knob is pushed fully home, but it will if it is moved by hand under the bonnet. It does however reduce the heat output to luke warm so not too bad. I think more heat comes from the gearbox cover, despite half an inch of wool underlay under the carpet on a longish run it manages to permeate through. Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidBee Posted August 6, 2021 Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Ralph Whitaker said: If you have an original pump putting out the correct 1.25 to 2.5 psi you don`t need a regulator as you say, my problem was the 5.5psi coming from the aftermarket pump. Ralph Spot on! I understand (long last). David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted August 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 As a complete aside to this thread, on the photo below of my engine bay you can clearly see the Lucas battery. At a recent car show an ex Lucas employee came up to me and asked me if I knew what the arrow like symbol on the right of the label was supposed to represent. I got it wrong. Anyone out there know ?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted August 6, 2021 Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ralph Whitaker said: Hi Neil, I placed the regulator right next to the carb, I was able to bend my copper fuel pipe enough to fit it without having to cut the pipe. See photo. I looked at various ones, but some are quite large and would really need to be fixed to the inner wing with consequent re plumbing, so went for the smallest I could find. It came as a kit with 2 different sized adapters to fit to the body and 4 short bits of fuel pipe {2 of each size) and 8 spring type hose clamps, all for under £20. I checked it for pressure and found the markings on the regulator to be fairly accurate, set mine to 1.5 psi. The Morgan tour was interesting, but probably not for the reasons you expect. Any visions of craftsmen hand making the cars is to some extent not true now, and it is more assembly of bought in components. As examples, the chassis are now bonded alloy complete tubs, inner wings, bulkheads, floors and sill structures, all made elsewhere and bought in. Same goes for the front and rear wings which are pressure formed at another factory and bought in. Wood is still used for the body tub, all cnc milled, and the doors, bonnet, front rad shroud, etc are still hand made on site, so craftsmen are still employed. The new owners have increased production to get the waiting list down from 8 years to only 1, mainly by sourcing more bought in parts, although at the moment they are running at one third of normal rate with a lot of the staff furlowed due to shortages of parts in the supply chain. They have a small museum area with some original JAP powered three wheelers, an early +4 Ford powered 3 wheeler, and a replica of the first ever Morgan 3 wheeler. Would I buy one? good question. Not one of the new ones unless my premium bonds came good, the modern BMW engines are far too complicated for my tastes, so many pipes and wires you cannot even see the engine. I liked a 25 year old +4 with only 16000 miles on it for £40k, my daughter preferred the V8 squint eyed one for £240k, and would have driven the Aeroline home if she could have stumped up the £450k. Ralph I am guessing the vacuum adaptor on the top of the manifold with the plastic pipe attached is for the distributor advance/retard. How is the original threaded tapping (under the front carb) in the carb venturi closed off? An air leak there would cause......... Peter W Edited August 6, 2021 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted August 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 26 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: I am guessing the vacuum adaptor on the top of the manifold with the plastic pipe attached is for the distributor advance/retard. How is the original threaded tapping (under the front carb) in the carb venturi closed off? An air leak there would cause......... Peter W Good spot. Just had a look with a mirror and it is not blocked off. There is a reducing bush with a very small hole which must be limiting the amount of air being drawn in. Just got it set up right with the plugs a nice light brown colour too. I bought the carbs and manifold together, and despite cleaning and re building the carbs had never noticed that hole. The one next to it and on the other carb are not drilled through so maybe I saw them and didn`t look closely enough. Also the adapter pipe was already in the manifold so assumed that was for the distributor advance pipe. Any idea what thread that hole is? before I stick some chewing gum in it Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted August 6, 2021 Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 18 minutes ago, Ralph Whitaker said: Good spot. Just had a look with a mirror and it is not blocked off. There is a reducing bush with a very small hole which must be limiting the amount of air being drawn in. Just got it set up right with the plugs a nice light brown colour too. I bought the carbs and manifold together, and despite cleaning and re building the carbs had never noticed that hole. The one next to it and on the other carb are not drilled through so maybe I saw them and didn`t look closely enough. Also the adapter pipe was already in the manifold so assumed that was for the distributor advance pipe. Any idea what thread that hole is? before I stick some chewing gum in it Ralph I would use the carb take off for the advance, the manifold one is far too brutal to actually allow the vacuum capsule to work right. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidBee Posted August 6, 2021 Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 I may be mistaken, as often, but Ralph, you know how you have routed the fuel line over the exhaust? Might that negatively impact the ingoing fuel temp? (No one else has commented on it, so I may be talking rot). David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted August 6, 2021 Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 5 hours ago, Ralph Whitaker said: As a complete aside to this thread, on the photo below of my engine bay you can clearly see the Lucas battery. At a recent car show an ex Lucas employee came up to me and asked me if I knew what the arrow like symbol on the right of the label was supposed to represent. I got it wrong. Anyone out there know ?? Yep it’s going to breakdown Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted August 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 Hi David, there is 3 inches of air under the pipe and the regulator, which to be fair is the minimum according to the installation instructions, it`s just where the pipe ended up after bending it around. The pipe was closer before I think. The corner of the radiator filler neck is only 3 inches away from the exhaust manifold, so to get the pipe further away would mean going under the filler neck and bringing the pipe in from the front with a 90 degree bend onto the carb. I will see how it gets on where it is before I start re plumbing it all. Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted August 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, ntc said: Yep it’s going to breakdown That`s a good one, probably appropriate too. Not right unfortunately. I will leave it for a while and see what other guesses appear. Edited August 6, 2021 by Ralph Whitaker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted August 6, 2021 Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 6 minutes ago, Ralph Whitaker said: That`s a good one, probably appropriate too. Just some advice your regular and a good one should not be subject to engine vibration and you need to move it to the body Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted August 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 5 hours ago, Ralph Whitaker said: As a complete aside to this thread, on the photo below of my engine bay you can clearly see the Lucas battery. At a recent car show an ex Lucas employee came up to me and asked me if I knew what the arrow like symbol on the right of the label was supposed to represent. I got it wrong. Anyone out there know ?? Lucas spent quite a lot of money with a marketing agency to have this logo designed I was informed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted August 6, 2021 Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Ralph Whitaker said: Lucas spent quite a lot of money with a marketing agency to have this logo designed I was informed. A fool and his money............ Perhaps if they had invested in the product and not the box, their reputation might be better? Edited August 6, 2021 by RobH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted August 6, 2021 Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 as it is a downward arrow did it foretell their product and reputation? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted August 6, 2021 Report Share Posted August 6, 2021 I used the rubber right angle connector and 'screwed' it onto the fitting in the carb body, then fitted the plastic tube to the distributor. Moss sell the nut and olive for the metal pipe. https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/electrical-system/ignition-system/ignition-system-tr2-4a-1953-67.html Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted August 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, Ralph Whitaker said: As a complete aside to this thread, on the photo below of my engine bay you can clearly see the Lucas battery. At a recent car show an ex Lucas employee came up to me and asked me if I knew what the arrow like symbol on the right of the label was supposed to represent. I got it wrong. Anyone out there know ?? 17 hours ago, ntc said: Yep it’s going to breakdown 15 hours ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: as it is a downward arrow did it foretell their product and reputation? Ok, I was told it is supposed to represent, and I quote, "The perfect mechanical fit !", angled thus so that the "gap" gives the impression of an L for Lucas. Make of that what you will, but that was what I was told. Whilst on the subject, were they really that bad ?. Bear in mind they had to manufacture down to a price for the car giants, and I don`t recall their stuff being bad at all, especially when compared with what we get nowadays. Anyone who worked on an old British bike fitted with Wipac electrics knows what grief they gave, and yet they survived when Lucas crumbled. Ralph. Edited August 7, 2021 by Ralph Whitaker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted September 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2021 OK, an update. After a couple of months of petrol leak free motoring, yesterday on starting up a strong smell of petrol which turned out to be the fuel pressure regulator leaking from under the adjusting knob. Fair gushing out straight onto the back of the alternator. I have removed it and contacted the supplier. there is a label on the bottom of it that states "ONLY lead free fuel" !! I cannot understand what difference leaded fuel would make if one could still get it, but fully understand that Ethanol would have an effect if the components were not Ethanol proof, seals etc. I am waiting to see if I get a reply from the supplier. Meanwhile I do now have an original AC pump and overhaul kit, so am thinking of using that which will mean I won`t need a regulator. I am worried though that the diaphragm in the original pump and overhaul kit may not be Ethanol tolerant, such additives not being around at the time they were made. Any thoughts? Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidBee Posted September 26, 2021 Report Share Posted September 26, 2021 (edited) I have a regulator like yours and it doesn't leak. But I was told it is not accurate. Where the dial is marked 2 or 2.5 etc may be out. If you still need a regulator, I would fit this one. But make sure it has a hole drilled for fitting the pressure gauge. Edited September 26, 2021 by DavidBee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted September 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2021 Yes, I have been looking at those and it is what I will buy next if I need to, but hoping an original pump will negate the need. Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidBee Posted September 26, 2021 Report Share Posted September 26, 2021 7 hours ago, Ralph Whitaker said: Yes, I have been looking at those and it is what I will buy next if I need to, but hoping an original pump will negate the need. Ralph If you need one, Ralph CHECK it has the threaded hole to fit a gauge. Ciao, David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Colin Fairhurst Posted September 26, 2021 Report Share Posted September 26, 2021 Just swop the spring that operates the diaphragm with the one from the old pump Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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