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33 minutes ago, DavidBee said:

I had the Webers set at 1.5 psi and the car ran very well on a long spin the other day. Then yesterday at over 2,5000-3,000 rpm engine sounded terrible, fuel starved? No idea. Got off the main road, parked up somwhere safe, reset tge dial at 2 psi and was back to normal. I think all the jets, venturi etc are wrong.

Webers do prefer 2.5 as long as your float levels are set corecttly

Stuart.

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5 hours ago, stuart said:

Webers do prefer 2.5 as long as your float levels are set corecttly

Stuart.

Stuart THANKS!!!!

That must be the root cause of erratic functioning, then! The float levels!!! I just don't have the confidence, though I understand the theory of these carburettors. (They are like Dell'Ortos). I recently bought John Passini's book from the TR Register and studied it carefully. It is all far less complicated than I thought, actually.

Your advice confirms what I was told by my TR friend Mike Strang in Alaska who is restoring a TR3 ("Penny"), and has years of experience working on cars. He said:

"For one thing, 1.5 or 3 psi should make no difference with the problems you describe. Your float needle and seat will hold back way more psi. Now how is the float setting? If too high, this can happen and more psi can get through".

But, as I say, I have no confidence whatsoever or else I would have listened.

Someone who sold me a pressure gauge (John Moynihan Rallying and Spares, Middletown, County Cork) and did reccommend 2.5 psi, actually, also stocks jets and chokes and so I plan to go to him and "we" ( = he) will set up the Webers, as per TeriAnn's advice in her TR website (for touring purposes and torque available from low rpm). And will definitely start by checking the floats. This is a winning streak coming up, Stuart, I can just sense it! :D:D:D

Edited by DavidBee
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There are quite a lot of variables with Webers. I have couple on my 3A and some years ago, it was running really badly: spitting, spluttering, runningon, etc. It was no fun to drive at all

Took it to an experienced Weber tuner (many claim to be, few are). 

He immediately changed the idle jets. Huge improvement. Then changed the plugs and with 30 minutes tuning on a rolling road it was transformed.

For what it is worth I have two Weber 45s, with 36mm chokes, 65F8 idle jets running with NGK B6HS set to 34 thou (although it seems just as happy with Champion L87YC plugs). Also have a Facet fuel pump and a regulator set at 2.5psi. 

Good luck - when set up they are very good and rarely need adjusting.

Miles

 

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1 hour ago, DavidBee said:

Stuart THANKS!!!!

That must be the root cause of erratic functioning, then! The float levels!!! I just don't have the confidence, though I understand the theory of these carburettors. (They are like Dell'Ortos). I recently bought John Passini's book from the TR Register and studied it carefully. It is all far less complicated than I thought, actually.

Your advice confirms what I was told by my TR friend Mike Strang in Alaska who is restoring a TR3 ("Penny"), and has years of experience working on cars. He said:

"For one thing, 1.5 or 3 psi should make no difference with the problems you describe. Your float needle and seat will hold back way more psi. Now how is the float setting? If too high, this can happen and more psi can get through".

But, as I say, I have no confidence whatsoever or else I would have listened.

Someone who sold me a pressure gauge (John Moynihan Rallying and Spares, Middletown, County Cork) and did reccommend 2.5 psi, actually, also stocks jets and chokes and so I plan to go to him and "we" ( = he) will set up the Webers, as per TeriAnn's advice in her TR website (for touring purposes and torque available from low rpm). And will definitely start by checking the floats. This is a winning streak coming up, Stuart, I can just sense it! :D:D:D

David 

you have a fantastic rally heritage in your neck of the woods find a rolling road that looks after these lads and lasses and they will set it up for you once and for all. money well spent in my mind.

 

H

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5 minutes ago, ntc said:

Weber’s need 3.5 to 4

Not on a 4 pot they dont.

Stuart.

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Just now, MilesA said:

Interesting Neil. What would be the effect of increasing from 2.5psi to say, 3.5psi?

Miles

On a 4 pot you`ll find thats possibly too much unless running flat out all the time.

Stuart.

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15 minutes ago, ntc said:

Weber’s need 3.5 to 4

Thanks Miles, NTC, Hamish and Stuart!

I wish I had your mechanical confidence! I love this Forum. You never feel alone. This comes after major mechanical problems now sorted, and about a year of my 3 being laid up out of the inclement weather, until I had a garage built recently.

Mostly, Hamish, for years, it's stage rallying heritage and yes, you must be right about rolling road facilities! Friday will find out what the existing set up is. Will follow TerriAnn's advice on Weber used on touring TRs, as opposed to top-end revs and wild cams.

 

Miles, "two Weber 45s, with 36mm chokes, 65F8 idle jets running with NGK B6HS set to 34 thou (although it seems just as happy with Champion L87YC plugs). Also have a Facet fuel pump and a regulator set at 2.5psi)."

Miles, I have heard the Dutch TR3B Registrar say the same thing. Reliable, no need to constantly tweak. And T. Freemont too. What's your fuel consumption?

I plan to follow the following:

TERRIANN's CHART for road TRs (not for track use) recommends:

Choke: 32

Auxilary choke: 3.5/4

Idle jet: 45 F9

Main jet: 130

Air correction jet: 180

Emulsion tube: F15

Accelerator pump intake / discharge valve: 50

Needle valve: 2.00

PS. My TR has new NGK B6HS (don't know what gap)

My TR friend in Alaska and Stuart too say it's down to the wrong float level. All this can be done first. Then, if necessary, a rolling road session. By hook or by crook...

 

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22 minutes ago, DavidBee said:

 

What's your fuel consumption?

 

Ah. That's the downside. Average about 18mpg. When the pedal goes down you can almost hear great slurps of fuel being sucked up. But that's part of the pleasure and I don't have this car or drive it enough to worry about fuel consumption. Just need to keep an eye on the fuel gauge on longer journeys...!

Miles

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2 minutes ago, MilesA said:

Ah. That's the downside. Average about 18mpg. Just need to keep an eye on the fuel gauge on longer journeys...!

Well, mine is intended as a "daily driver". Except I won't use my TR3 for commuting to work, once the Pandemic is over. (I normally travel by bicycle to the station and rail).

That's the reason why, I don't mind losing a few bhps for better fuel consumption, and why I plan to restrict the main choke to 30 or 32 max. I don't need all the potential of the Webers which were, after all, and by design, intended to be set up either for road use or race, with different configurations to suit.

That much is clear from John Passini's book available from the Register, making comparisons of different set ups and from TerriAnn's guidelines for Webers on TRs. 

It is reassuring to know that once they're properly configured you don't have to keep worrying about them, but can instead turn your Lord of the Rings Sauron EYE to one of the many other TR peculiarities.

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28 minutes ago, ntc said:

Let’s agree to disagree most rr up the pressure to what I said and yes I know that site by the way the std mechanical pump delivered that and was never a issue no restriction required 

In my opinion, it all depends on the intended use. Competition or normal road use. Unless, if, and when I ever get back to navigational road rallying, I might think in such terms. But mostly, my use is as a daily road car, or regular weekend use all year round. If we can agree that the aesthetic beauty of Webers or Dell'Ortos is not that they are Italian like myself, but, rather, their flexibility, the underlying principle to consider is what do you need them for? My previous TR, TR2 OGB 800, had HS6s which I replaced with fixed-needle NOS H6s and log type inlet manifold, in a fit of quasi originality (should have been H4s). But these Webers came with the car and I just want them to work efficiently. I have plenty of bhps, so don't need to go begging for more. I want TR torque at the low end and power up to 4,500 rpm. Most people don't. They want the other benefit, at the price of fuel economy and losing tractability up to mid-range.

Most roads here are "A" roads, speed limit is 100km or 62mph. 120km motorways are few and far between.

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24 minutes ago, DavidBee said:

In my opinion, it all depends on the intended use. Competition or normal road use. Unless, if, and when I ever get back to navigational road rallying, I might think in such terms. But mostly, my use is as a daily road car, or regular weekend use all year round. If we can agree that the aesthetic beauty of Webers or Dell'Ortos is not that they are Italian like myself, but, rather, their flexibility, the underlying principle to consider is what do you need them for? My previous TR, TR2 OGB 800, had HS6s which I replaced with fixed-needle NOS H6s and log type inlet manifold, in a fit of quasi originality (should have been H4s). But these Webers came with the car and I just want them to work efficiently. I have plenty of bhps, so don't need to go begging for more. I want TR torque at the low end and power up to 4,500 rpm. Most people don't. They want the other benefit, at the price of fuel economy and losing tractability up to mid-range.

Most roads here are "A" roads, speed limit is 100km or 62mph. 120km motorways are few and far between.

It makes no difference as to the use Weber’s require a constant supply the progression of the correctly set up jets take care of that and they can deliver good fuel economy 

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1 hour ago, ntc said:

It makes no difference as to the use Weber’s require a constant supply the progression of the correctly set up jets take care of that and they can deliver good fuel economy 

Thanks! Nice to know that.

The more I look into all this (with your collective help) the less confused I seem to be.

When you say "correctly set up jets" you must mean the choice of jets and/ their matching, since there are several to choose from, depending on where you want the power, bottom end or top end. Is that so?

David

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All this seems to have gone astray from my original question regarding standard fuel pump pressures. 

What it has made clear though is the importance of the correct fuel pressure for your particular application, and why you cannot just convert to electric, or as in my case, put a replacement non original pump on without checking the effects on the carburation.

I like the look of twin Webers, and I love the sound, but the standard SU`s perform well enough for me , and are easy enough to set up and maintain, and give good fuel economy, so unless I decide to take up racing I will be sticking with them.

Ralph

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Ralph - if you are going to Malvern, I will have a number of Dave Davies refurbished pumps on my stall which you can study, and if I'm selling, whilst I obviously need to take exchange units, I can make a small number available outright if someone hasn't got an original one to exchange.

My stall will be in the members autojumble area next to Conrad's which hopefully you wont be able to miss with his bright green gazebo!

Cheers Rich

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36 minutes ago, rcreweread said:

Ralph - if you are going to Malvern, I will have a number of Dave Davies refurbished pumps on my stall which you can study, and if I'm selling, whilst I obviously need to take exchange units, I can make a small number available outright if someone hasn't got an original one to exchange.

My stall will be in the members autojumble area next to Conrad's which hopefully you wont be able to miss with his bright green gazebo!

Cheers Rich

Actually came back from Malvern yesterday, finally used my 2019 Christmas pressie of a Factory tour at Morgan cars. Didn`t go down in the TR though. It was a horrible journey, all motorway, and not one I want to repeat in the TR, so probably will not be coming unfortunately, at least not in the TR, unless I can find a better route or travel at night.

Ralph

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On 8/4/2021 at 5:53 AM, Ralph Whitaker said:

Fitted the in line pressure regulator yesterday, set at 1.5 psi, and took the car for a short run of about 8 miles.

I have to say it has never run so sweetly.  Consistent tickover at junctions etc, instant pick up and smooth power delivery, and not a hint of flooding from the carbs.

Very pleased so far.

Ralph

Hi Ralph, 

        Mine is presently running well but I recognise the symptoms you have described. I'm not sure how I fixed mine (it might be a different pump) and think I will test the fuel presssure. Out of interest what fuel regulator have you used and were have you placed it. 

       Thanks, 

                    Neil

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On 7/26/2021 at 8:51 AM, Ralph Whitaker said:

Hi,

does anyone know what the normal outlet pressure should be from the fuel pump?

I am still plagued by the front carb overflowing occasionally. I had the Grose jets fitted but changed it at the weekend for a normal needle jet. Thought it had fixed the problem but after a ten mile run last night it had a constant stream of fuel out of the overflow. Float is fine, and needle jet seals under its own weight when you turn the lid upside down and blow through the inlet pipe.

I am thinking now that the pattern part replacement pump may have too strong a spring fitted and it is forcing the valves off their seats.

I have ordered a fuel pressure gauge to test the delivery pressure, which I am thinking only needs to be quite low, but not sure exactly what.

Thanks, Ralph.

 

To each his/her own, Ralph.

What I've learned in the past weeks is that Webers can either be set up for track racing or for road use, due to the many options in choice of components. This seems to be mostly overlooked in their use in Northern Europe and US.

That's interesting, because, as it happens, they were designed for both kinds of use: a forged carburettor body with far more parts you can replace. I have Webers, and so will do what I can to have them tuned for road use, touring, and economy. Your car is equipped with SUs, and so it is a theoretical issue, not a tangible problem. If KST 277 were fitted with SUs, I would stick with SUs. But she's not. Strictly speaking, you don't even really need a pressure regulator with SUs. My previous TR, a 2 with a TR4 engine, distributor and HS6s, didn't.

Thanks, and good luck!

David

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9 hours ago, Ralph Whitaker said:

Actually came back from Malvern yesterday, finally used my 2019 Christmas pressie of a Factory tour at Morgan cars. Didn`t go down in the TR though. It was a horrible journey, all motorway, and not one I want to repeat in the TR, so probably will not be coming unfortunately, at least not in the TR, unless I can find a better route or travel at night.

Ralph

Ralph, 

    Way off topic, but what did you think of the Morgan tour. I've never done it but it does interest me and interested to get your opinion for the tour. 

Neil

PS not planning to sell the TR3A and switching to Morgan :)

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