Nobbysr Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Am hoping that someone can help me out with this one Essentially i have the cam lubed up and in the bloc, the Vernier cog is fitted loosely but its the next part I'm checking on, The information from moss is listed below ... So would be correct in assuming that once i have confirmed TDC, I then advance the crank by 103 degrees at which point the no 1 Inlet valve should be at maximum lift. its worth mentioning that the head off and i do have dial gauges and mag stan .. have got this completely wrong .The crank gear was worn so the gears and chain have been replaced. Profile: Fast Road Inlet Timing: 37-63 Exhaust Timing: 73-37 Camshaft Duration: 280˚ Lift: 0.300” Install Figure: 103˚ Inlet Valve Clearance: 0.022” Exhaust Valve Clearance: 0.024” Power Band: 2500-5500 Al;l the best steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Read this article from Macy’s Garage. Very simple and straightforward. Only time consuming issue may be making the plate and dummy push rods. This is precisely the system I use https://www.macysgarage.com/cam degree.htm Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 (edited) The Macy's kit looks the business but I was a bit more agricultural. I placed the appropriate cam follower in No1 inlet with another follower upside down on top so that I had a flat surface to place the dial gauge on. I had already determined TDC on the engine using an old spark plug with the centre drilled out and tapped for a piece of studding. I did exactly as you suggest, set the engine to TDC, advance it to the desired setting (103 deg in your case) and then set the camshaft at max lift on No.1 inlet. I didn't have a vernier camshaft chain wheel so I played around with the one i had to find the best setting, remembering to keep the chain tensioned. I fixed the camshaft setting protractor to the crankshaft by drilling and tapping the end of the crankshaft pulley bolt to accept a small setscrew. Rgds Ian Edited July 25, 2021 by Ian Vincent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nobbysr Posted July 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 That's great news, I really appreciate the help the forum provides, so many thanks to you all. Ian one last question though, is the degree disc secured to the cam so that you can check against movement ?? all Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Nobbysr said: That's great news, I really appreciate the help the forum provides, so many thanks to you all. Ian one last question though, is the degree disc secured to the cam so that you can check against movement ?? all Hi Nobby, Apologies for a major senior moment - the degree disc was secured to the crankshaft not the camshaft - doh! See attached: Rgds Ian (PS my cam was a Newman PH1 which needed to be set at 110 deg.) Edited July 25, 2021 by Ian Vincent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted July 25, 2021 Report Share Posted July 25, 2021 Quite so. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nobbysr Posted July 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 That's great thanks for the clarification ... knocked up a pointer at the weekend and have some alloy plate awaiting delivery to make a piston TDC lock so should be good to go, will send a few pics of the rig I really appreciate your help it would have been a real challenge without it so thanks again Gents cheers Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 Print out your own degree wheel here and paste it on an old ‘45’ https://www.blocklayer.com/degree-wheel.aspx Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nobbysr Posted July 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2021 Final question i hope.... is the cam installation figure of 103 degrees ATDC or BTDC , assuming a clockwise rotation ??? hopefully that makes sense cheers Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted July 28, 2021 Report Share Posted July 28, 2021 Hi Steve, if you are doing things with the head off make sure that the liners are anchored down securely. You don;t want them moving. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted July 28, 2021 Report Share Posted July 28, 2021 Clockwise rotation when viewed from the front. ATDC 103 degrees is centre of the inlet lobe. Use the link I gave above and fill in the info for your cam that you gave at the start of this thread. You will get the following printable image. Cheers Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted July 28, 2021 Report Share Posted July 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Nobbysr said: Final question i hope.... is the cam installation figure of 103 degrees ATDC or BTDC , assuming a clockwise rotation ??? hopefully that makes sense cheers Steve It is the number of degrees after top dead centre (no1 piston or no 4 as they are at tdc at the same time) when no1 inlet valve is at max lift. If you look end on the direction of rotation is clear - the timing chain tensioner is on the slack side of the chain when rotating. I tend to time the cam before putting the head on. I use 2 old cam followers stuck together on a bolt to make identifying max lift with a dial gauge easier. It also makes sense to mark / verify your front pulley’s TDC mark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted July 28, 2021 Report Share Posted July 28, 2021 PS Remember No 1 inlet is the second cam lobe counting from the front. The front cam lobe is exhaust. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted July 29, 2021 Report Share Posted July 29, 2021 I have to say Peter that I find the camshaft timing protractor that you have shown quite confusing. With the one shown in mine or Bob’s photos it is very much clearer, set the camshaft to maximum lift on no 1 inlet and have the crank at 110 (or 103) after TDC. Rgds Ian PS. Remembering all the stuff about tensioning the chain etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted July 29, 2021 Report Share Posted July 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Ian Vincent said: I have to say Peter that I find the camshaft timing protractor that you have shown quite confusing. With the one shown in mine or Bob’s photos it is very much clearer, set the camshaft to maximum lift on no 1 inlet and have the crank at 110 (or 103) after TDC. Rgds Ian PS. Remembering all the stuff about tensioning the chain etc. It is the text on the printed page that was important. It confirmed that the 103 was inlet After Top Dead Centre. The other gubbins on the disc merely shews valve duration as coloured bars. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nobbysr Posted July 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 s God i like you Guys you are Princes among men will let you know how it goes all the best Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nobbysr Posted June 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2023 hi Folks While i am looking at a fast cam in my user I am also re- building an engine up with a standard cam, so could you help with the timing set up for that , the head is off and the crank journls are fine and the liners and rings replaced, so once the cranks back in with new bearings i need to set up the cam timing all the best Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted June 23, 2023 Report Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) The installation figure is 110 degrees for a standard original TR2:3 cam read this for more info. https://www.tildentechnologies.com/Cams/TriumphCams.html You can confirm that this installation is right by setting crank to TDC and checking that you have equal lift on both adjacent inlet and exhaust cam lobes of a particular cylinder (nos 1 or 4 ) Edited June 23, 2023 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nobbysr Posted June 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 Thanks Peter , assuming that 110 ATDC no1 inlet is at maximum lift ??? or i could set tdc and no1 inlet and exhaust should be the height ??? Sorry for being a bit thick, but i did make the mistake on my other engine of setting no1 on the exhaust rather than the inlet (thanks for the heads up on that one) appriciate you help many thanbks Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 All that about ATDC angle! Do 3As have a symmetrical camshaft (I expect so). If so, then you can fit it using "Equal Lift on Overlap", which needs no degree wheel, just a dial indicator. See: https://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/9639-a-new-method-of-cam-timing/#comment-134275 John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted June 28, 2023 Report Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, john.r.davies said: All that about ATDC angle! Do 3As have a symmetrical camshaft (I expect so). If so, then you can fit it using "Equal Lift on Overlap", which needs no degree wheel, just a dial indicator. See: https://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/9639-a-new-method-of-cam-timing/#comment-134275 John Spot on for the standard symmetrical cam fitted in TR2-3-4 With the head and rocker gear fitted you can do the same thing with feeler gauges. That technique is detailed in the original WSM 502602 WSM Group1 25.pdf 502602 WSM Group1 26.pdf Edited June 28, 2023 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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