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Verstappen vs Hamilton - what do you think?


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Except, Alan, that motor racing should NOT be a contact sport!

It's far too dangerous.      It has been a sad observation of my thirty years in it that standards at club level have deteriorated, largely I belive thanks to the BTCC series.     That secured, extraordinarily, independence from the disciplinary process used by the then RAC Motorsport Association, and used it to promote highly agressive racing to pander to a certain class of spectator.    In saloons, contact between them leads to no more than the loss of a wing mirror and a few dents and scrapes.    Nothing, to a well funded professional team, but traumatic and expensive to the Club racer, who has become more and more the recipient of such unwelcome embraces. 

The same level of aggression is deadly to the F1 car, built to take stress from only its own running, not external impacts and with wheels and suspension that stick out way beyond the bodywork, which contains an enormously strong driver-protective cell.   As Verstappen discovered, only the last in a long list, who used to die, but now emerge, scorched or bruised but otherwise well, despite in this case, a 51G impact!

John

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John,

Agreed no contact. Unfortunately the aerodynamics of the F1 cars result in the trailing car running slower until a suitable separation between the cars and consequent less disturbed air. Overtaking is therefore restricted to slower corners, of which Silverstone has few, or "going for it" which you don't recommend. So a procession it is then.

Slower cars and twisty circuits much better racing. I believe is should be about the driving not technology on the ragged edge and mega budgets.

Alan

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If the cars handling like it's on rails...you ain't going fast enough.

Mick Richards

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1 hour ago, barkerwilliams said:

John,

Slower cars and twisty circuits much better racing. I believe is should be about the driving not technology on the ragged edge and mega budgets.

Alan

Thnak you, Alan!   I fully agree!     What a pity that too few Triumph racers still take part for their own race!

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1 hour ago, john.r.davies said:

Thnak you, Alan!   I fully agree!     What a pity that too few Triumph racers still take part for their own race!

its as has been said before but the risk of someone else taking you out puts me off circuit racing 

which is why i do the club sprints and hill climbs - still a risk if you are trying - but its down to you !!

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When they said the Silverstone had a pre-GP 'sprint' that was exactly what I thought would happen!   Three laps each, FTD gets pole!

John

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There's been some 'lobbying' from Mercedes about the incident , see: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.allison-reveals-what-mercedes-were-so-keen-to-show-fia-stewards-in-aftermath.6gkGu98osreCQLgg5DgwrL.html

This makes the same point as I did.    If a car is on the inside, substantially level with another car, and is under control to take the corner, then that driver has the corner.   Hamilton had all of those.

John

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1 hour ago, ntc said:

Suggest you go round Silverstone with a professional racing instructor and learn how to drive it 

What three abreast!!!  I don’t think so. There is only one racing line around any bend on any track.

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2 hours ago, Harbottle said:

What three abreast!!!  I don’t think so. There is only one racing line around any bend on any track.

Fraid not.

There's a constant radius racing line achieving the maximum grip and highest overall speed throughout the corner which is normally fastest... until the car behind you enters on a fast in (faster than a constant radius line) and slow out line, and having an entry speed advantage overtakes you and blocks you all down the next straight. 

Which then means the first cars choice into the next bend is a constant radius and risk the second car doing fast in slow out on him, or if he's sneaky the first car slows before the corner entrance and blocks your entrance to the corner and delivers... the reverse a slow in fast out racing line himself. Which gets him away from the second running car. Hopefully then, the second running car, has dropped back enough to ignore the front running car and then adopts a constant speed radius to maximise exit speed from the corner allowing the second cars speed advantage to build and allow an out braking manoeuvre upon entry to the next corner...and so it continues.

At any stage you can see drivers adopting all 3 different lines depending upon their track position and tactic in the corner, and as Neil says not unusual on sufficient width tracks on the same corner together.  

Mick Richards  

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On 7/21/2021 at 11:13 AM, Hamish said:

its as has been said before but the risk of someone else taking you out puts me off circuit racing 

which is why i do the club sprints and hill climbs - still a risk if you are trying - but its down to you !!

I have similar reasons for preferring rallying - plus there's two of you in the car, so it's more social :)  Well, until one of you makes a mistake, then it can get un-social for a bit ;)

Tim

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12 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

Fraid not.

There's a constant radius racing line achieving the maximum grip and highest overall speed throughout the corner which is normally fastest... until the car behind you enters on a fast in (faster than a constant radius line) and slow out line, and having an entry speed advantage overtakes you and blocks you all down the next straight. 

Which then means the first cars choice into the next bend is a constant radius and risk the second car doing fast in slow out on him, or if he's sneaky the first car slows before the corner entrance and blocks your entrance to the corner and delivers... the reverse a slow in fast out racing line himself. Which gets him away from the second running car. Hopefully then, the second running car, has dropped back enough to ignore the front running car and then adopts a constant speed radius to maximise exit speed from the corner allowing the second cars speed advantage to build and allow an out braking manoeuvre upon entry to the next corner...and so it continues.

At any stage you can see drivers adopting all 3 different lines depending upon their track position and tactic in the corner, and as Neil says not unusual on sufficient width tracks on the same corner together.  

Mick Richards  

Try Banger racing, then you`ll see how many you can get to go round the corners together...............................or not:lol:

Stuart.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/22/2021 at 9:35 PM, Motorsport Mickey said:

Fraid not.

There's a constant radius racing line achieving the maximum grip and highest overall speed throughout the corner which is normally fastest... until the car behind you enters on a fast in (faster than a constant radius line) and slow out line, and having an entry speed advantage overtakes you and blocks you all down the next straight. 

Which then means the first cars choice into the next bend is a constant radius and risk the second car doing fast in slow out on him, or if he's sneaky the first car slows before the corner entrance and blocks your entrance to the corner and delivers... the reverse a slow in fast out racing line himself. Which gets him away from the second running car. Hopefully then, the second running car, has dropped back enough to ignore the front running car and then adopts a constant speed radius to maximise exit speed from the corner allowing the second cars speed advantage to build and allow an out braking manoeuvre upon entry to the next corner...and so it continues.

At any stage you can see drivers adopting all 3 different lines depending upon their track position and tactic in the corner, and as Neil says not unusual on sufficient width tracks on the same corner together.  

Mick Richards  

Hi Mick , I agree with what you say regarding having to adopt different lines depending on track position, however I stand by my comment that the racing line for drivers is the fastest line around/through any corner. That’s how they achieve grid positions.

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35 minutes ago, Harbottle said:

Hi Mick , I agree with what you say regarding having to adopt different lines depending on track position, however I stand by my comment that the racing line for drivers is the fastest line around/through any corner. That’s how they achieve grid positions.

And I agree with what you say regarding the racing line being the fastest through any corner, it's the constant radius curve as I mention above. However your answer was to the comment about seeing cars 3 abreast and that's when they are racing and the only way is to adopt 1 of the 3 options itemised above. The racing line is fastest but only temporary and any professional race driver will only adopt it when clear of pursuers, as taught by any professional racing instructors. Three cars going through a corner are racing for race position not grid position (unless in a qualifying session of course). Lets agree to disagree.

Mick Richards  

 

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Wasn't his duel with Alonzo good?  Two masters, as opposed to master and young gun.

How about some GPs where they reverse the grid at the last minute?   That would be exciting!

Edited by john.r.davies
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1 hour ago, john.r.davies said:

Wasn't his duel with Alonzo good?  Two masters, as opposed to master and young gun.

How about some GPs where they reverse the grid at the last minute?   That would be exciting!

Agree John. Two absolute professionals, showing how close you can race together if you have the skill. Very fair, very hard racing from both men.

Iain

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1 hour ago, iain said:

Agree John. Two absolute professionals, showing how close you can race together if you have the skill. Very fair, very hard racing from both men.

Iain

and he was a team player as all his hard work protected Ocon

sad for Vettel as it was a team not driver issue

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