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front suspension overhaul: lower arm removal


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Posted (edited)

Would someone on this forum be willing to send me such a mandril mandrel, I will pay any costs (material, manufacture, shipping,..) in advance through PayPal or other means.

I have no means to do this myself here, and french workshops are not around, and if they were it would take a year or so.

 

Edited by earckens
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39 minutes ago, Chris59 said:

Fwiw, instead of the "plastic" inner bushes, I'd rather use Superflex bushes : they will last longer than us, you won't loose anything in steering sharpness, and they will remove some vibrations. 

 

Good idea: where can I get these?

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Chris Witor sell these bushes SuperFlex advanced polyurethane suspension bushes

Edited by Chris59
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55 minutes ago, earckens said:

Would someone on this forum be willing to send me such a mandril mandrel

You have PM. 

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Chris59 said:

Chris Witor sell these bushes SuperFlex advanced polyurethane suspension bushes

I called Chris, but he does have TR4A, not for TR4. Very kind and helpful person though!

Edited by earckens
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3 hours ago, earckens said:

I called Chris, but he does have TR4A, not for TR4. Very kind and helpful person though!

Strange, as I bought some from him recently..

Check this reference on SF website : SF377-0288ALK.

 

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2 minutes ago, Chris59 said:

Strange, as I bought some from him recently..

Check this reference on SF website : SF377-0288ALK.

 

What is "SF"?

I would like to look that up.

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10 minutes ago, RobH said:

Thanks RobH and Chris59.

When I checked this reference SF377-0288ALK, it came up as "Front lower wishbone kit", but these look like replacements for part 112 in this drawing:

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/front-suspension-tr2-4-1953-65.html

Of those I do have the polyurethane version from Moss (part # 102228SPK)

I thought, when Chris59 talked about "the "plastic" inner bushes", he refered to part 115 (nylon bush) in above drawing.

Do I make the wrong assumption?

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Those outer bushes don't look bad although it is difficult to see with them full of grease. I'd clean them up to see if the bronze layer has worn through (if it has they're scrap)  and try the new trunnion spindle in there with just some light oil to test them for size. If they're not sloppy I'd re use them.

I wouldn't use anything other than the standard bushes in the lower inner as they exhibit far less flex than poly-bushes. The lower inners take the majority of the load and poly bushes let the assembly flex quite a bit especially under hard braking. I've used the nylon lower inners on the top fulcrums too for better location but unlike some I do prefer a bit of handling sharpness over a smooth ride.

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Revington offers a variety of Superpro and Nylatron bushes for suspension (and elsewhere).

Either type will outlast rubber, which seems to disintegrate all too rapidly.

Ian Cornish

 

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Hi Ian, I have the polyurethane kit of bushes for shockabsober (upper and lower seats and bushes), the lower control arm seals and the upper control arm inner bushes.

But I still have no answer on the nylon bush on the lower control arm inner side.

Yesterdat I called Moss and they advise against using the polyurethane bushes there because they give too much slack compared to a rubber bush + nylon bush.

Now is there an better alternative to that nylon bush I do not know; Moss sells a nylatron alternative but is this better than nylon (nylatron is cheaper so not as good?) ?

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Go the whole hog and have the arms machined to accept shell case needle roller bearings. Nearest to the correct size are used on classic Minis front and rear suspension  arms. Best ones are made by Torrington.  Have fun getting the thing lubricated in service though and properly aligned.  
 

to be honest……Nylon set up as original is a pretty good arrangement in my view for almost all applications.

Peter W

PS how many miles do you want to do and what conditions will you be using the car in?  

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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14 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Go the whole hog and have the arms machined to accept shell case needle roller bearings. Nearest to the correct size are used on classic Minis front and rear suspension  arms. Best ones are made by Torrington.  Have fun getting the thing lubricated in service though and properly aligned.  
 

to be honest……Nylon set up as original is a pretty good arrangement in my view for almost all applications.

Peter W

PS how many miles do you want to do and what conditions will you be using the car in?  

"..go the whole hog..": I would agree with you but I cannot even get a simple mandrel machined in the very wide surroundings.

This is southern France and I do not trust any garage within a 100 miles, except one that did a super job setting my Weber's.

I use the car for gentle touring, less than 500 miles per year, if that.

 

 

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earckens: my car is an ex-Works Rally TR4 and was fitted with nylon bushes when it was re-built by Revington some 28 years ago.  These bushes, comined with competition springs & dampers, make it a hard ride - as my grandson (aged 9) told me when he had a ride on Saturday.

I suggest you speak to Neil Revington direct - he is very helpful.

Ian Cornish

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How cute, with your grandson, super!

I will get in touch with Neil, thank you for your advice. This forum is being such a superb place to meet like-minded people, I am thankful for that.

Grts, Erik

 

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Hi,

I know one of this harder-louder-faster guys who fitted "nylon" bushes on the inner ends of the wishbones of his TR6.

His comment was: "the most painfull drive to the petrol station and back ever! To kick them immediately out again".

By the way: I wrote nylon in "_" because this bushes are typically made of POM, another deep black or shiny white bearing plastic.

Indeed I realize using the therm "nylon" and ignoring "POM" is very popular at this forum.

Ciao, Marco

Edited by Z320
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2 hours ago, Z320 said:

Hi,

I know one of this harder-louder-faster guys who fitted "nylon" bushes on the inner ends of the wishbones of his TR6.

His comment was: "the most painfull drive to the petrol station and back ever! To kick them immediately out again".

By the way: I wrote nylon in "_" because this bushes are typically made of POM, another deep black or shiny white bearing plastic.

Indeed I realize using the therm "nylon" and ignoring "POM" is very popular at this forum.

Ciao, Marco

Hi Marco,

these nylon bushes on the inner lower wishbone arms appear to be a standard part according to the Moss drawing cited above.

What is POM?

Grts, Erik

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Nylon is Polyamide, looks "milky", mainly used by injection moulding,

sadly not good to cut on the lathe, gives a rough surface and no exact dimensions.

POM is Polyoxymethylene, a better plastic bearing material, deep black or shiny white,

also possible for injection moulding - BUT very good to cut on the lathe, gives a very smooth surface and exact dimensions.

If Moss sells you "nylon bushes" I'm pretty shure they are made of POM. 

The TR4A (and 5, 6) has POM bushes ourside (trunnion side) and PUR (polyurethan) or orininal rubber bush inside (frame side).

I make a photo for you this eveneing.

I hope I do not irritate you....:ph34r:

Edited by Z320
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6 minutes ago, Z320 said:

(...)

The TR4A (and 5, 6) has POM bushes ourside (trunnion side) and PUR (polyurethan) or orininal rubber bush inside (frame side).

(...)

My TR4 currently, and Moss drawing cited above in this thread, show nylon/POM bushes lower inside arm (Moss advised me against polyurethane here), and polyurethane bushings inner upper arms.

Trunnion side: steel bushes.

Can you please show what part on that drawing should better be POM bush? Thanks a lot!

Erik

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Hi Erik,

I'm no TR4 specialist,

for me (after a look on the Moss and the Rimmer webside) it looks like you can repair this with parts in

- a rubber combination

- a PUR (poly) combination

- a nylon combination

All "nylon" parts I see for this at the Moss and Rimmer webside are pretty shure POM made, don't matter this.

I would chose the poly combination, this is what I have on my TR4A.

But you better trust what TR3-4 drivers tell you.

Ciao, Marco

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OK. I have had a rake through the suspension box.  Photos shew original set up for cars TR3/4 up to and including TR4  (NB.  TR 2 had rubber bushes on the lower inners and was modified in service to the nylon bush running on steel sleeve with nylon thrusts and rubber sealing rings.    TR4A and all laters have a completely different set up as original on their lower wishbones.   
 

The milky white nylon polyamide bush for the inner end is as original . The black bush is a Triumph Tune nylatron (POM) bush. The nylon thrust washers are the Polymide nylon as described above.  The rubber sealing rings are as original. The use of polyurethane ones instead is worth doing as these replacements perish and split. (Quite pricey though)   Fit the rubber sealing washer to the nylon thrust washer prior to assembly….it saves a lot of Argro..

 

The outer end has. Bronze lined steel case bush made by Vandervell originally.  Again rubber rings seal around the steel thrust washers and the stepped locking washers.

Cheers

Peter W

8F09D10D-BA0A-432C-BA4B-E35500256400.jpeg

1DC0D371-5A83-4024-AB16-3976505AEEB1.jpeg

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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Top posting Peter!

Very clear, now I understand.

About the inner milky nylon polyamide bush, Moss sells the black POM version less than half price of the white nylon polyamide bushing so I thought that was inferior quality.

The rubber sealing rings I replace with the polyurethane version.

Also the rubber seal rings on the outer end will be replaced with the polyurethane version.

What do you mean with "..Argro.."?

Thanks again,

Erik

PS: I use the spring compression tool made by Z320, top job!

 

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21 minutes ago, earckens said:

Top posting Peter!

Very clear, now I understand.

About the inner milky nylon polyamide bush, Moss sells the black POM version less than half price of the white nylon polyamide bushing so I thought that was inferior quality.

The rubber sealing rings I replace with the polyurethane version.

Also the rubber seal rings on the outer end will be replaced with the polyurethane version.

What do you mean with "..Argro.."?   My spelling error    Aggravation.  Peter W

Thanks again,

Erik

PS: I use the spring compression tool made by Z320, top job!

 

  What do you mean with "..Argro.."?   My spelling error    Aggravation.  Peter W 

Did you sort out a mandrel for the outer bushes, to remove and refit?   If not I will whizz one up on the lathe and post it next week.   No idea how long the  post would take.   Last parcel I sent took over two weeks to get to Germany by ‘special delivery’

Cheers

Peter W

 

 

 

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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7 hours ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

(..)

Did you sort out a mandrel for the outer bushes, to remove and refit?   If not I will whizz one up on the lathe and post it next week.   No idea how long the  post would take.   Last parcel I sent took over two weeks to get to Germany by ‘special delivery’

Cheers

Peter W

 

Hi Peter,

yes the mandrel is sorted out, many thanks for asking as well as for proposing; and to RobH who made one and sent it to me! This is such a fantastic forum: not only very informative, but such a joy to "meet" people of like minds, solidarity and helpfullnes. Top!

Erik

 

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