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front suspension overhaul: lower arm removal


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I am not sure how to remove both lower arms: the connection with the trunion does not give in.

I removed all bolts and the upper arm support plate; here the arm can wiggle free, but at the trunion?

I also would like to have some advice on replacement of all bushings:

on the upper arm I already inserted the blue polyurethane bushings; also the shock absorber received new polyurethane seats.

What else should be replaced, preferably in view of a quality overhaul.

A new trunion is already waiting for insertion.

 

 

IMG_20210717_170034.jpg

Edited by earckens
clarification
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The outer washers on the trunnion are a press fit on the spindle. A good whack on the inside of the arm with a copper or aluminium drift should free them off. Save them as new ones aren't the best.

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Take a look at the bushes in the arms once you've got it stripped down. Usually none of the bushes are any good so I'd replace them all.

Its a good idea to press in the outer bushes and then ream through both bushes with the arms bolted to the spring plate. That ensures that they will be in line when the trunnion is assembled and wont bind on the spindle.

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33 minutes ago, Drewmotty said:

Take a look at the bushes in the arms once you've got it stripped down. Usually none of the bushes are any good so I'd replace them all.

Its a good idea to press in the outer bushes and then ream through both bushes with the arms bolted to the spring plate. That ensures that they will be in line when the trunnion is assembled and wont bind on the spindle.

Thanks, I will keep the present trunnions.

Which outer bushes do you refer to?

With the arms bolted to the spring plate: can you please explain "..ream through both bushes..", and "..will be in line..", and the binding to the spindle..?

Thanks for your patience, this is my first ever overhaul and although I am practical enough, mechanics on my TR4 is a great learning experience.

 

 

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The outer bushes are pressed into the outer end of the arms and run on the spindle passing through the trunnion. 

Once the bushes have been replaced bolt the arms to the spring plate (on the bench rather than on the car) and run a reamer through one bush into the other to make sure that the bores line up. 

If they don’t lone up properly the bushes will be tight on the trunnion spindle. 

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30 minutes ago, earckens said:

What size reamer should I use? Should this by reaming on the nylon bush, or do I have this wrong?

I think. 0.625”. Aka  5/8” is stock size for the outer lower trunnions to wishbones bushes.  Measure the pin pressed through the trunnions to be double dog sure.  

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Yes. Fit bushes to arms and ream as a pair to the required/correct size while the arms are bolted to the spring pan, so they are in line with each other.  Revington does an oilite bush for these positions.  They are half the width of originals so you need twice as many

https://www.revingtontr.com/search.asp?for=101615&cartype=tr4
 

Originals were steel with inner facing of bronze. 101615 is original.  I have a few NOS Triumph spares if you get stuck.  
Cheers

Peter W

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Reaming ? not if the Revington oilite bush is used, sez the Rev.

...TR2-4 bush oilite in outer wishbone. 2 of these replace one 101615.

An oilite bush has a larger wear depth than the standard steel backed bush and is less prone to seizure as the bush retains oil from manufacture. As an added bonus, they do not require reaming after fitting.

Mick Richards

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1. Just to make sure I understand correctly: are we talking about bush # 102 here: https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/steering-suspension/front-suspension/front-suspension-tr2-4-1953-65.html

But this to be replaced by the oilite 101615 from Revington.

2. what about bushing # 116 in the above Moss drawing, bush 110695 (lower control arm, chassis side): is there an alternative that is better?

Edited by earckens
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The current metal bush 102 seems stuck in the lower arm.

Any suggestion how to get it out? So far I tried by gently prying out with a screwdriver.

IMG_20210718_151856.jpg

Edited by earckens
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Find or make a bar of the same (or slightly smaller) outer diameter, & press out using a vice, or press if you have one, or drift out with a hammer.

it will be tight.

Bob.

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1 hour ago, Lebro said:

Find or make a bar of the same (or slightly smaller) outer diameter, & press out using a vice, or press if you have one, or drift out with a hammer.

it will be tight.

Bob.

That will work, I already got the nylon bushes on the other side of this arm out that way.

But looking at this brass bush inside the arm I have the impression it "looks" alright; I have the oilite 101615 bushes from Revington here at disposal.

Should I, or should I not (yet) replace these bushes with the oilites?

 

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55 minutes ago, Lebro said:

A good question, only you can answer I'm afraid !  is there any rocking movement when pushed onto the trunnion pin ?

Bob.

I just tried with my current trunnion: in the vertical plane, with the vertical control arm connected, there are about 5mm play (so that is from the horizontal control arm bushing to the top of the control arm, a distance of about 20cm).

I the horizontal plane maybe a few millimeters play, calculated over the same distance, but then perpendicular to the vertical control arm (in the horizontal plane).

I tried a new trunnion that I have lying here: same thing, maybe a bit better.

 

Edited by earckens
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Fit new bushes while you are there.  The oilite bushes are brittle so be easy with the hammer.  Ideally use a stepped mandrill to push them in.  

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2 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

stepped mandrill

Like this one?  

mandrill.jpeg.ebd29d0c481c8d4c32895be30de340e9.jpeg

 

Personally I would use a mandrel. :P   (Sorry - couldn't resist)

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20 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Fit new bushes while you are there.  The oilite bushes are brittle so be easy with the hammer.  Ideally use a stepped mandrill to push them in.  

Thanks for warning about this material, I will be careful.

What is a stepped mandril?

What about a vice pressing them in while pressing the current bush out?

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A stepped mandrel is a rod  which has two different stepped diameters - one smaller to fit closely inside the bore of the bush and the larger the same diameter as the outside. By fitting the small end of mandrel in to the bush and then using the large end to push the bush into position, you avoid damaging the soft metal because the bush is supported. Ideally the smaller portion will be the same length as the bush.

It isn't a good idea to use the new bush to push the old one out - the metal is too fragile for that.

Oilite bushes are made from sintered material which starts off as grains of metal which are squashed together under heat. The process leaves open pores between the grains which hold oil but it also means the stuff is brittle and easily damaged. 

 

 

Edited by RobH
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32 minutes ago, RobH said:

Like this one?  

mandrill.jpeg.ebd29d0c481c8d4c32895be30de340e9.jpeg

 

Personally I would use a mandrel. :P   (Sorry - couldn't resist)

So you have also seen some of the so call classic car specialists…….

my mistake. Spell predict took over

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Fwiw, instead of the "plastic" inner bushes, I'd rather use Superflex bushes : they will last longer than us, you won't loose anything in steering sharpness, and they will remove some vibrations. 

 

Edited by Chris59
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