Restoration Project, Introduction

[mike Seager]

Hi all I am a  new member to the club, have been meaning to join and get in contact for a few months now.  Have been looking through posts for a while and found some very interesting and useful information.  I won't waffle on so this is why I am here. I wanted a new project having recently finished another house, so in anticipation imported a TR3B 1963 from LA in 2017.  I have details of the last owner and all the correct paperwork and all duties paid.  So Vin : TCF1699L - Engine block : TCF1733E - brass plate bulkhead 2228TSF.  Am I correct in thinking this is a matching numbers car due to the closeness of numbers and is the engine a 2.2lt as TR4.  I have not done a restoration for 30 + years and that was a spitfire mk2.  I think original colour was white from factory as seam to be in places where difficult to spray with body on.  I like a challenge and although it is a pretty basic car I like things done properly.  My trade was originally a cabinet maker (handmade items all bespoke, I now do shopfitting).  The car arrived from Beverly Hills car club  with bits fitted for pictures and delivery (previous owner had started dismantling and thought better of it).  I know I have committed the first sin of buying from pictures unseen and a resto already started, I did know this and I found the process of dealing with Adam very smooth and honest with everything explained.  Car gets delivered and put in workshop until recently.  Did my homework on do's and don'ts, have found comments and discussions on the forums very helpful along with internet.  So the car has rust in the usual places but the body is in my opinion absolutely saveable.  I can do most items and want to do as much as possible, that will be part of owning the car and driving it when it is completed.  I have spoken with lots of garages, (internet is a great tool) and hopefully experts in there given field.  Some have responded other have not, some do not read what I sent them  and just want to do the lot after I have parted with £50,000 +.  Others I have spoken with or have visited, one local garage seemed very enthusiastic and was willing to let me get involved, but I didn't see anything that blew me away work wise, the chap was also climbing over  a client's expensive  car to show me another car saying they always pick up marks if hear for a while, thats after he told me he wanted 15k to spray mine after body repairs!!  The car is now well on its way to being fully stripped.  I have tried to follow the golden rule of loads of pictures and label everything, sure to be scratching head on some bits.  I have body completely stripped of all components and removed from chassis yesterday. 

Body metal repairs and panel replacement.  Need some club input as nobody I have spoken with feels me with confidence.  One guy I quite liked wanted to build a whole new body, not what the car deserves.  So a really good metal repairer who knows the 3 I am after, don't mind travelling and paying a fair price.  Welding I have never done so happy to leave to the right person.

The engine I am thinking of send to J&E engineering up north, they do Triumph and Jonathan seamed to know his craft.  

Chassis again spoke with Colin at CTM engineering.  My chassis although has a few battle scars being low looks in pretty good nick due to in some part a decent covering of engine and gearbox oil.  He did feel me with fear explaining they rust from inside out and are only thin gauge steel with not many that are straight with bits twisted.  Given me a low down on how to check, he did know what he was talking about and had passion for his job.

Paintwork, although I am a trained furniture finisher I do not have the set up for getting the paint finish I am after, however I have had costs in excess of £16k from pictures I have sent, not sure if this is the going rate but not for me.

Not after a street racer but want to do some nice upgrades to make the car a usable classic, it will not be for the purists , but as my mate said make it so it's not Friday/ Saturday fettling to use on Sunday.  Looking for a fast road use car.  So thinking of lead free conversion, updated oil seals, maybe fuel injection Jevon, nice free flow exhaust, update ignition, starter all bearings, crank checked and updated accordingly etc.  Hoping the engine is mostly reusable as turns easily with plugs out have oiled the bores during my tenor. steering and brake upgrades along with cooling system.  Have had a few conflicting descriptions on how to complete to conclusion, I don't want to be the many that starts and ends up with a car in bits never to see the road again.  I do still work and am always busy with work.  

My thought process on order of works

Get engine to builders for assessment, J&E would want the unit for upto 18 months.  Would asses with in 6- 8 weeks of unit arriving with them.

Strip and get Chassis for repairs and paint or PC along with suspension components.

Get Chassis back and rebuild with all new moving parts

Get body stripped  of paint, recommendations on dipping or blasting with a decent company along with initial rust protection

Make repairs to the underside of body  and protect against rusting

Re marry the engine to chassis, to allow correct gapping of body panels 

Do upper bodywork repairs and re instal wings and bolt on panels , all are repairable so once repaired  test fit

Remove and paint tub and panels, refit and add all the nice chrome bits.

I think that's enough of an intro I am Bristol based.  A small selection of pictures attached.  I will be looking for good reliable companies who do an honest days work and have passion for there given craft.   Would love to venture out and meet up on one of your meets as long as you don't take offence to arriving in one of those german brands or even a motorbike.

[foster461]

Welcome Mike !. Your TR3b looks pretty good. Has some issues obviously but we have seen much worse. The local guys can help you with local resources but one thing I would mention is that is normal to get the tub stabilized (sills, floors, door pillars etc) using the chassis as a jig to keep things aligned and once the inner tub is sorted the chassis can go off and do its thing and you can deal with the outer panels knowing that the body and the tub can come together at a later date. It looks to me from the pictures that your tub is going to need some major surgery and likely new inner and outer sills.

You have a lot of work ahead, looking forward to seeing the progress.

Stan

[david ferry]

Mike,

Welcome to the club!

As Stan says, a good project as it isn’t too rotten and horrible. There’s many that are way further gone.

Have you got the car U.K. registered with DVLA? Before you go too much further, it may be worth doing this. At the moment I guess, all you’d need to do is sit the body back on the chassis and loosely hang the doors and panels. It’s worth doing this now as sometimes DVLA will wish to inspect the car and they prefer cars in their unrestored condition as they can be happy that the car is ‘real’.

If you get a heritage certificate, this will help you with the registration process as it will provide the required dating information. It may also tell you the engine number which the car had from new.

Details here https://www.britishmotormuseum.co.uk/archive/heritage-certificates

If you go down this route and decide to visit them to collect it, I’m only down the road from there in Southam and have two rebuilt TR3s. One is a race car I completed recently, the other is (in my opinion) a very nice modified road car with EFI and a bundle of other goodies. You’re welcome to come and have a look/chat.

You're welcome to come and visit in any event.

Quick question - are you keeping the car left hand drive, or converting to right hand drive?

David

[Ralph Whitaker]

Mike, welcome to the club.

Get a dating certificate from the Standard Motor Club via Mike Ellis. It may not be on nice paper with a nice gold rosette in the corner, but it is a lot more informative as well as being a lot cheaper, and in my case more accurate as regards build date.  The Heritage certificate guessed at the manufacturing date because their records are incomplete.

I kept lots of photos of my re build and applied for the registration after completion using the club service. From what I have been hearing DVLA will not issue a number to a pile of bits.

With the help of the club I did not even need an inspection of the car, all done on photographs of the completed car. Of course a couple of years down the line when your car is done things may have changed.

Ralph

Ralph

[Kiwifrog]

For honest advice from a restorer who knows what he is doing contact Stuart from watermill carrage company. He posts on the forum regularly giving help and advice and runs a specialist restoration business

[ianc]

As gearbox removal/replacement is an absolute sod of a job if the car has been put together, make sure your gearbox (in common with many TRs in the USA, yours doesn't appear to have an overdrive) is OK before you get much further.

If you wanted to fit an overdrive, I'm sure David Ferry could assist, and Pete Cox (Pete Cox Sportscars in Redditch) could fit overdrive and check the gearbox - Pete has been fettling TR transmissions for more than 50 years.

You are within easy reach of Revington TR at Middlezoy - Neil has been running his business almost 50 years.

Ian Cornish

[mike ellis]

Hi Mike,

Lots of work there but nothing that can't be done.

To register an imported car with an age related plate the DVLA require a running car with an MoT so you don't need to do it until then.  Unfortunately I cannot help with a dating certificate as the records I have access to do not include TR3B.  You will have to contact the British Motor Museum (https://www.britishmotormuseum.co.uk/archive/heritage-certificates) and hope that they have one for your car.

Mike

 

[ijonsson]

Don't forget about the electrics, you would probably like some upgrades in those as well, and the work need to be integrated in the build planning. Else, I myself wouldn't spend to much money on upgrading the engine, overdrive is of more importance to a nice drive. The 2.1 or 2.2 engine does cope well with today's traffic as it is, and the car isn't heavy. Lead free conversion and new rear oil seal is probably a must though.

[Ian Vincent]

If you are based in Bristol, You aren’t far from Thomas Hamlin & co who are based in Bridgwater. They do all the machining work for Revington TR and know the wet liner engines very well. You don’t need to send your engine parts anywhere else. 
 

And there is a very good post on here by Bob LeBroq which sets out in some detail the issues you may have and how to deal with them.

Rgds Ian

[klashorst]

Hello Mike,

Welcome to the Register and the global database of TR3Bs that still exist. I have added your car to the database and will send a certificate you when I have your e-mail address. I have known about TCF1699-L since June 2020 when I noticed it on the web. Yes, the numbrs are matching and the car was built around 28 August 1962. As you probably know TR3Bs were only built in 1962, but some were sold in 1963 and therefore some owners claim their car to be a TR3B of 1963. I have started building the database in 2003 as I was curious of how many were left and maybe find out abouit the history of my own 3B, TCF1255-L that originated from los Angeles, CA, as yours did. If there is anything you like to know about TR3B, just PM me or here. via the Forum. The database has now over 580 commission numbers. Out of over 3.300 built is not bad, I think.

Happy restoration, Gert

Edited June 25, 2021 by klashorst

[David Owen]

Looking forward to watching the progress and challenges you face.  A 3B is a great find.

[david ferry]

9 hours ago, mike ellis said:

Hi Mike,

Lots of work there but nothing that can't be done.

To register an imported car with an age related plate the DVLA require a running car with an MoT so you don't need to do it until then.  Unfortunately I cannot help with a dating certificate as the records I have access to do not include TR3B.  You will have to contact the British Motor Museum (https://www.britishmotormuseum.co.uk/archive/heritage-certificates) and hope that they have one for your car.

Mike

 

Mike,

In my experience, an MOT isn’t needed, just a declaration that it’s exempt from MOT. DVLA form V112 does this.

David

[mike Seager]

Well thank you very much guys for the warm welcome.  I am quite surprised how many responses there are along with some very useful information. from hear and the USA

I did see one message pop up today but not the others.  I will read through all the above over the weekend and respond in more detail, probably a few questions as well.

if you don't see a response swiftly it is not me being ignorant, its that work is very busy and i tend not to look at personal stuff at work.

cheers Mike

[mike ellis]

1 hour ago, david ferry said:

Mike,

In my experience, an MOT isn’t needed, just a declaration that it’s exempt from MOT. DVLA form V112 does this.

David

David,

It depends how recent your experience is, DVLA are constantly moving the goalposts.

Mike

[mike Seager]

 

Hi all  i have a NOVA certificate & V55/5 for first registration so far.  Will i need to COP certificate and IVA?  

So as  post's i can carry stripping down  and get the car road worthy.

[Colin916]

21 hours ago, mike ellis said:

David,

It depends how recent your experience is, DVLA are constantly moving the goalposts.

Mike

Mine application is currently with dvla. They only queried my photocopied USA documents, they want originals. They were OK with no M. O. T.  Just fill in the declaration form. 

[Colin916]

Also, I'd recommend one of those fancy high torque starter motors. Brilliant how they whizz it round.! By the time you've reconditioned the old one which weighs 3.75 tons these are a no-brainer. 

[mike Seager]

Hi All   thanks again for all the good advice, have been in touch with some members who have helped with some of the queries and decisions that come with a full rebuild.  Will be in touch with Thomas Hamblin next week as could not get them on Saturday, been recommended by a few now and they are only 40 mins away.  Have spent the weekend getting things completely stripped.  Have more of a steer on what work to do engine.  The chassis now cleaned of all the engrained oil & assume wax oil (like clay) along with stones and grit have discovered maybe more damage than had hoped.  Chassis has lots of scraps and dented metal along with some damage to the front turret, body bracket front missing and rear body bracket had a clout.  Have sent pictures to CTM for some feedback.  A few pics for you.  Seams to be pretty solid as tapping with point hammer seams to all sound solid.  Every section forward of the gearbox will need attention though.

Will also be ringing Stuart at Watermill this week