Bfg Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 Not sure if this is of interest but I'll broach the subject anyway. . . I know some of you use small box trailers and trailer-tents, towed with your TR., and likewise I'm giving up camping at worm level. 30 - 40 years ago I didn't think twice about clambering about in a small tent, but now I'm somewhat less lithe. My not being small doesn't help ..and gravity seem to have been increasing cumulatively over the past ^0+ years, so I was looking for an alternative. Being on my lonesome a small trailer tent seemed worth investigating but I couldn't find anything on the market I wanted or could afford. So I'm opting to to do my own thing ..again ! My requirement is for a particularly compact trailer-tent, which is of course in direct conflict with me happening to be 6'5" long (sleeping or sitting). My design brief . . . small & low profile to sneak-in behind my Triumph TR (..when that's back on the road). The older Triumph car's width are pretty diminutive (around about 48-1/2" in the case of my 4A), and of course any sports car's waist line and rear window are likewise way down there. lightweight inexpensive / able to be made at home for just me, whether I go to a classic car rally or go touring for a month. I'd like to stay in B&B's but in the first instance (something like a national rally) they are "no rooms" at the Inn, and in the second ; B&B's add up to a lot of cost - if used every night for a month. Also there are a lot of nice out of the way places to stop to be close to nature ..which is after all why I like touring in an open top car ..and to go camping. provision for a backpacker's camp cooker and basic provisions, etc ..and a dry composting "bucket". This is for camping, albeit inches off the ground ..not the Ritz. easy to deploy and use, even if that's just for a lunch break when the weather is being "particularly unfriendly". predominantly for warmer weather UK use. ^ proposal I've been working through. The trailer's box is just 3' 8" wide x 30" high x 4' 6"" long (5' 6" inc hitch & rear lights) so is smaller than most. As a trailer tent, it's larger than a small box trailer in which a tent, gear, bedding and provisions are carried ..but I feel this size still ought to tuck-in pretty well behind a sports car. I propose making it out of plywood and fibreglass, in similar construction to that of a plywood boat. The chassis frame doubles duty for the telescopic tubes ..for the tail-end to pull out on. Legs can then support it. the berth is on suspended cloth (like a camp bed) which allows for a lighter / slimmer mattress to be used and saves the weight in plywood. when extended the berth is ; 6'-10" long x 36" wide for the body, and tapering to 24-1/2" wide at the foot. Then there's a, hopefully useful, 44" x 6" fiddled-shelf space for bit's n' bobs beside the bed. The void space beside the foot of the berth is step-through (down to a rubber mat laid directly on the ground underneath) so with feet on the ground I'll have another 7" of height ..useful perhaps when getting dressed.? With the foot of the berth folded and stowed away the foot space area can be used (with due care of course) for camp cooking, etc. the lid is to be made in grp and hinged along its forward edge, so in blustery conditions the trailer can be faced into wind to help lessen buffeting or driving rain. A hinged lid is quick and easy to deploy, and it saves a good percentage of fabric and most tent poles. A fibreglass lid is also more watertight when closed anyway, and then overlays the extending tail to lock it all together, as a secondary lock. It's been an interesting challenge to design for someone of my size and lessening dexterity (it's an age thing !) but I think it'll work ..pending getting a well made canopy, and if I can keep the towed weight down ..so it doesn't lessen the fun of driving a 50+ year old sports car. I guess the only way I'll know is to build it. So, its wheels with suspension, the towing hitch and jockey wheel have been bought, and I'm now committed ..to the tune of almost £205. This afternoon I was detail dimensioning the first pieces to be cut from plywood, and I'm close to pulling a shopping list together for the 1-1/2" square hollow section tube for the chassis and telescopic legs. Again today I was looking on e-bay at drive-away camper-van awnings, which may be a relatively cheap way to acquire a canopy quickly. With one of those - I'd just use the trailer inside the awning as a fold out bed ..until I'm sure the trailer bed / accommodation work well enough, and then I'll have a custom canopy made. Anyway there you go.. Hope it's of interest. Your ideas and constructive comment are invited. Bidding you a very good evening, Pete. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 (edited) Hi Peter, stay tuned into Ebay - here is one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324675336379?hash=item4b982878bb:g:aMIAAOSwXWhgxfoc Roger Edited June 13, 2021 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 Some nice design ideas, looks potentially very practical. Query: does your design allow enough articulation for tight turns and manoeuvring? The hitch seems very close to the body of the trailer and I don't know how much your TR's tow hitch projects. Re the canvas rear/sides: I would give some thought to whether you could optionally have the canvas rigged during daytime as a more horizontal "sunshield" (with the sides open). When the weather allows, that would give you more headroom for when you're cooking etc. Personally, I would make the bed slightly narrower at the 'head' end and dedicate a bit more space at the side of it for built-in storage bins for smaller items, that can be accessed without having to grope around under the bed which presumably is going to be quite hard once set up for the night. In any case, before finalising the design it would be worth harmonising the under-bed storage area dimensions to multiples of the sizes of the "Really Useful Box" or similar plastic crates range, so avoid wasting any space. The underside of the fibreglass lid will also be an excellent storage area, eg using net pockets for clothing, coats and gubbins, easily accessible. If you're gong to do that you may want to put in battens or similar when you design/construct the lid. For the WC, everyone who camps has their favourite options and you obviously have yours... but have you looked at the smallest versions of the modern 'portapotti' type systems? The Thetford 335 is very compact and extremely practical and pleasant to use hence an extremely popular choice for campervanners - if you do contemplate that at all, it would be worth taking account of the size at the design stage ((H 313 x w 342 x H 382 mm). Good luck! Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bfg Posted June 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 2 hours ago, RogerH said: Hi Peter, stay tuned into Ebay - here is one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324675336379?hash=item4b982878bb:g:aMIAAOSwXWhgxfoc Roger Cheers Roger, I have indeed been looking at both used and new models, and some nifty ones on you-tube also, since I started down this route. But generally they are too big and/or sophisticated (heavy &/or expensive) for what I consider an acceptable size relative to the car and my modest needs. I'm sure it's just the first one you came across but "Main body ; 2.5m long x 1.65m wide" wouldn't work for me. The inside boot width on the TR4 is said to be around 46" (1.17m) whereas my trailer is 44", at it's widest point (the wheels) and a further 5" narrower across its nose - so that it'll tuck in behind the car and not stick out even when going around tight twisty lanes. But I will keep looking Pete. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bfg Posted June 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Bleednipple said: Some nice design ideas, looks potentially very practical. Query: does your design allow enough articulation for tight turns and manoeuvring? The hitch seems very close to the body of the trailer and I don't know how much your TR's tow hitch projects. Re the canvas rear/sides: I would give some thought to whether you could optionally have the canvas rigged during daytime as a more horizontal "sunshield" (with the sides open). When the weather allows, that would give you more headroom for when you're cooking etc. Personally, I would make the bed slightly narrower at the 'head' end and dedicate a bit more space at the side of it for built-in storage bins for smaller items, that can be accessed without having to grope around under the bed which presumably is going to be quite hard once set up for the night. In any case, before finalising the design it would be worth harmonising the under-bed storage area dimensions to multiples of the sizes of the "Really Useful Box" or similar plastic crates range, so avoid wasting any space. The underside of the fibreglass lid will also be an excellent storage area, eg using net pockets for clothing, coats and gubbins, easily accessible. If you're gong to do that you may want to put in battens or similar when you design/construct the lid. For the WC, everyone who camps has their favourite options and you obviously have yours... but have you looked at the smallest versions of the modern 'portapotti' type systems? The Thetford 335 is very compact and extremely practical and pleasant to use hence an extremely popular choice for campervanners - if you do contemplate that at all, it would be worth taking account of the size at the design stage ((H 313 x w 342 x H 382 mm). Good luck! Nigel Thanks Nigel, great reply. Articulation ; I estimate it'll turn 41 degrees from straight before the rear bumper over-rider touches the front of the box. I don't know what is acceptable until I try it but I would have thought any more than that (only possible in reverse anyway) would be passed correcting / straightening up, again.., ie., jack-knifed ? " optionally have the canvas rigged during daytime as a more horizontal "sunshield" (with the sides open). When the weather allows, that would give you more headroom for when you're cooking etc " The cover with zip-opening door on both sides, opening from the top ..which when one or both opened would leave the sun shield overhead but with good ventilation or a through-draft. Otherwise my thinking has only got as far as the canopy being detachable around its bottom (the box) edge. That then could be released and tidied up into the propped open (clam-shell like) lid. I'll keep your suggestion in mind for when I get a better feel for it ..when part built. Harmonizing stowage the under berth storage into useful size boxes is a good idea, and useful for packing too. I have a 3-drawer clear plastic recycling bin for my cook and camp kitchen stuff packed into (goes into my Chrysler Voyager) but I'll have to find new boxes to specifically fit the trailer. Likewise using the inside of the lid. I have one particular Driza-bone XXXL waxed cotton full length coat which would occupy that whole space but which otherwise would be a problem of where to store it. Great idea - Thanks. Consuming in excess of a cubic foot of storage space for a portapotti is not something I'll be going for. I've had Thetford toilets before and never used them. But a bag of sawdust and a plastic container for urine is fine for the very rare occasion I cannot use public facilities and need to take it home. Some really useful ideas - I'm glad for more Cheers, Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 41 degrees of articulation does sound enough I guess. You could always put plastic pads on the front of the trailer to protect the TR bumper should they touch. I assume you'll be going without a spare wheel for the trailer? You can now get foam-fill/gunk to put in tyres that practically prevents punctures, I think that would work on a small trailer although haven't any experience of that myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bfg Posted June 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) Turning circle ; Interesting question... I looked further into it this morning and an on-line calculator suggests that the TR4's 33ft turning circle (between curbs) results in a 31 degree angle to the trailer. I quickly drafted that in ACAD and tbh it did not look as though the trailer would follow within that turning circle (..perhaps because it didn't use the trailer ball to back of car distance). So I altered the drawing to reflect the trailer angle I hope to build and the result looks more realistic. . . ^ A quick approximation of the car with trailer tucked in behind it ; straight ahead and at full lock (33ft turning circle illustrated) with the car at 40 degrees to the trailer. The TR is a small car, just 49" wide so the above gives a good indication of the size of this trailer. Still the pine kitchen table I'm sitting at is 6ft x 4ft and much the same height.. and at just 6" longer that's a huge table for this room. Anyways up I'll check the turning radius / lock once I actually have a trailer, and if necessary I'll extend the coupling's length by a couple of inches to increase the angle. Pete. Edited June 14, 2021 by Bfg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 Will you ever take it on a ferry? If so it would be good to look at overall trailer length, as the break-points for trailer fares tend to be in whole metres. Your trailer looks like it's comfortably under 2 metres but If necessary you could make the tow hitch bar telescopic with a 'long' and 'short' position! Sorry I'm probably getting too cute on that. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bfg Posted June 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) A very valid point, Nigel, Having seen photos of Brittany and Normandy I'd like to visit one day soon, and yes I hope to go across to Ireland too. This trailer length from tip to tail is presently 1662mm, so I'm well within the 2m whole metres. Pete p.s. and approximately : 5.6m overall length of car with trailer. Edited June 14, 2021 by Bfg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deggers Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 Hi Pete, Impressive CAD drawings. I know you mentioned at the top of the thread that you've already discounted a number of trailer-tent options, but having had a quick browse through Youtube, I thought I'd link this 'Raclet' advert below . . . for obvious reasons. Cheers, Deggers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bfg Posted June 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 Cheers Deggers. nice car ..otherwise I'm guessing you already have a fair idea of my thoughts on the trailer-tent &/or its price. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted June 15, 2021 Report Share Posted June 15, 2021 On 6/14/2021 at 11:57 AM, Bfg said: Turning circle ; Interesting question... I looked further into it this morning and an on-line calculator suggests that the TR4's 33ft turning circle (between curbs) results in a 31 degree angle to the trailer. I quickly drafted that in ACAD and tbh it did not look as though the trailer would follow within that turning circle (..perhaps because it didn't use the trailer ball to back of car distance). So I altered the drawing to reflect the trailer angle I hope to build and the result looks more realistic. . . ^ A quick approximation of the car with trailer tucked in behind it ; straight ahead and at full lock (33ft turning circle illustrated) with the car at 40 degrees to the trailer. The TR is a small car, just 49" wide so the above gives a good indication of the size of this trailer. Still the pine kitchen table I'm sitting at is 6ft x 4ft and much the same height.. and at just 6" longer that's a huge table for this room. Anyways up I'll check the turning radius / lock once I actually have a trailer, and if necessary I'll extend the coupling's length by a couple of inches to increase the angle. Pete. Hi Pete, I’m sure you have thought of this but it’s the angle when you are reversing that can give you the most problems. I used to have a relatively long narrow trailer and had to be quite careful not to get it ‘locked up’ when going backwards. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bfg Posted June 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2021 From the geometry, a short trailer would be more responsive in reverse than a long one, particularly if the trailer's track is wide. And a tow car with long rear overhang together with sensitive steering makes things even more so. Reversing a short box trailer with a TR ought to be fun then ! All I can do to lessen the difficulty is to have the trailer's axle as far back as possible (likened to a longer trailer) but against this I have to balance nose weight on the tow bar. The jack-knife angle is increased by having the trailer's body narrow at the front and with generously rounded corners. The design shown has 41 degrees, although this may be increased by lengthening the trailer's hitch beam ..if I should find it necessary. A telescopic hitch beam length is a possibility but adds more weight and complication. Pete. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
james christie Posted June 15, 2021 Report Share Posted June 15, 2021 Pete, Apart from turning radius - which is surely a minor consideration - I suspect you may be barking up the wrong tree when looking at the distance between the towing point and the trailer axle. The problem to anticipate is the ease of backing up. With a short length it is well nigh impossible, especially on rough ground. If you want some free entertainment, visit your local recycling centre and watch the players backing up to the various bins (especially the greenery one) with short trailers totally unsuited to the job! james Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bfg Posted June 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) I reviewed the design, last night and this morning, and have decided to move the axle 4" further forward. This allows me that much more usable space behind the axle to position any heavier provisions and a water container as a counterbalance to nose weight. . . ^ Previous version left, revised to the right. Looking more conventional perhaps because to move the axles forward - I've reshaped the trailer's plan view slightly, to be wider at the front corners because this means the trailer's body is more parallel over the wheels in their new position. I've shortened the front of the body by 15mm, leaving the ball hitch where it was, to ensure a good turning circle (changing its jack-knife angle from 41 to 44 degrees), and I've also altered the corners from R.100mm to R.75mm, so that the trailer now looks a little squarer and less tapered than before. The change to the radius was because.. that was the inside diameter of an off-cut length of drainage tube which had been dumped alongside my boat . . . ^ exciting isn't it ? ..but therein lies the cornerstone to the new trailer. ^ with 70cm of pipe cut off and then sliced longways, I have two moulds. These have been gel-coated white (I think the gel was left over from when I was making cockpit hatches for my boat ..a number of years ago). The bigger plywood panel was dumped in the skip a year or so ago, and the smaller panel I did buy (ten years ago now) for fitting out the boat, but never used it because it was unnecessarily strong and heavy. So cost of materials so far : zilch ^ laminated with grass-fibre ..well mainly glass-fibre but a piece of grass was picked up and moulded in after that piece of mat found it's way onto the floor. Anyway.. I've started Pete. Edited June 16, 2021 by Bfg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony_C Posted June 16, 2021 Report Share Posted June 16, 2021 Pete, I like the cut of your jib……..! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D Posted June 17, 2021 Report Share Posted June 17, 2021 13 hours ago, Bfg said: laminated with grass-fibre When I used to make fibre glass panels in my railway arch I was amazed how often I would get roll-up cigarette ends in the resin mix which eventually ended up in the lay-up. I usually managed to get them out before the resin went off, but I know for certain some of my customers had an embedded fag-end that they did not know about. Charlie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bfg Posted June 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2021 You do make me laugh t'bacca-fibre has carbon in it. For exceptional strength ? ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bfg Posted June 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2021 11 hours ago, Tony_C said: Pete, I like the cut of your jib……..! lee ho Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BRENDA1 Posted June 17, 2021 Report Share Posted June 17, 2021 Morning Pete, well done keeping yourself busy while your TR is away, I found this you may be able to slid in it to sleep but you would have to have a tent for all your other stuff. Mike redrose group Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bfg Posted June 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2021 Woh., That guy's got a sense of humour styling it like a four wheeled caravan! ..funny too to think of a big hairy biker in full dress code of tattoo's and leather, curling up to sleep in dolls house Weather pending I'll be cutting some wood today for mine, but perhaps I should fashion it more English like . . . nah.. I think I'll stick with a trailer tent. I rather like the grace & spaciousness of this one . . . Pete. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted June 17, 2021 Report Share Posted June 17, 2021 Hi Pete, loads of stuff to mull over Total simplicity https://www.eta.co.uk/2018/07/19/pop-inflatable-bicycle-caravan/ Style https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192895126283?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338365712&toolid=20006&customid=EB7523177& or DIY https://www.amazon.co.uk/Building-Teardrop-Trailer-Crafting-Heirloom/dp/B083XVH9XQ/ref=asc_df_B083XVH9XQ/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=417890496958&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17579080934180404212&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046086&hvtargid=pla-870220679906&psc=1&th=1&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=93121571174&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=417890496958&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17579080934180404212&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046086&hvtargid=pla-870220679906 Better still https://www.pinterest.com/pin/motorcycle-teardrop-trailer-plans-detailed-downloadable--201465783304907903/ Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bfg Posted June 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2021 That's brilliant Roger - Thanks. I particularly like the first link bicycle trailers. And the inflatable bicycle 'Gentle tent' is particularly clever. £2700+ is a whole lot of money but I wonder if they would sell me just the tent ? I'll drop them a line to ask. Others are interesting but not really what I'm looking for. cheers, Pete. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted June 17, 2021 Report Share Posted June 17, 2021 we have toured Europe with a Danish made Camplet since 2005. Lightweight and spacious with cooking facilities and two double beds when open. https://www.camperlands.co.uk/trailer-tents-instructions-downloads/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted June 17, 2021 Report Share Posted June 17, 2021 Good luck with homemade as no type approval hence no insurance Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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