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Clutch problem.


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Hi Mick,

details of the clutch cross shaft, showing the square headed tapered pin, 1427460707_wiredoverdrive007.jpg.4703e549f2003d70e7c7157e0c458add.jpg  and the cross drilled, roll pin to support same.

 

You also have a PM, Mick.

click on the envelope in the top right hand corner.

John.

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Just a thought, put the car into gear without the engine running, if you push the car does it turn the engine? Try each gear.

That might confirm the plate being the problem, or something else in the gearbox.

John

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High John L thank you for your reply.

I did a better inspection and wrote this sentence.

(My biggest problem, it did not matter if I was in 1/2/3 or neutral the car would roll very easily as if it was in neutral all the time.) 

What did you have in mind thank you.

Mick.

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So you put it into any gear, without the engine running, pushing the car, does it turn the engine over?  I would think it will be the middle of the clutch plate that is broken away from the lining as stated earlier in another post, there was a problem with the clutch plates and the number of rivets holding the linings to the centre part.

John

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Cheers John L

As I have posted before I expect it to be the original clutch.

I am about 95% sure it will be gearbox out.

I am not going to be able to work on my car for about 2/3 months.

I do not expect it to work but I will do the hydraulics first, and then gearbox out, as any one knows who has done this job before, you spend a lot of the time getting access to the gearbox and then refitting it all, I wish the job could be done from under the car.

My attitude is when something is broken just get the job done, no big deal.

Mick.

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Hi Mick

Just a thought, you mentioned the car is rarely used so could it be the clutch or the cross shaft sticking? Although the clutch pedal is returning when released, have you confirmed the clutch lever is returning? If you can get someone to operate the clutch pedal while observing underneath you should see the clutch lever moving back & forth the 16mm or so Waldi described above.

Alan

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On 5/31/2021 at 3:49 PM, RobH said:

Unfortunately Mick, that is almost certainly a clutch plate problem and the only way to sort it is to remove the gearbox. As Neil (NTC) said in his post -  some years back there was a batch of poorly-rivetted clutch plates and it may be you are a victim of that if the previous owner used one.  

The gearbox is only removable upwards and unless you have a strong helper some sort of mechanical lift is a boon. It isn't a particularly difficult job, just tedious as you have to remove a fair bit from the cabin to get to it.  I am sure you will get plenty of advice on the process and on what bits to buy. 

You have probably already read that a common problem is breakage of the taper pin which holds the clutch operating fork to the cross-shaft. If you are lucky an extra bolt or taper pin will already have been fitted but if not this is the opportunity to do it. 

The slave cylinder is a very easy thing to replace!  

Commiserations and good luck. 

 

Borg & Beck was a Brand name of quality but like many British component manufactures they went to the wall. Then came along Firstline who purchased the name and started using the name Borg and Beck. This fooled many customers into thinking they were buying the genuine article. But they were not! The replacement TR6 clutch was made in China and only had 8 rivets to secure the friction plate instead of 16 as the original and therefore had a habit of falling off. I believe that this problem has now been cured by going back to 16 rivets?

Bruce.

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  • 2 months later...

Hi I first started asking for help on the 30/5/21 and started taking notes from the very helpful replies.

I had a planned minor operation which required me to take it easy for 12 weeks, no heavy lifting, that is the reason for the delay to carry out the work.

I made a start today, the first job was to remove the clutch slave cylinder.

Unfortunately although it was replaced 5 years ago before I purchased the car, the cylinder bore and piston are pitted beyond repair.

The question, as my clutch slave cylinder needs replacing, can anyone recommend where I can get a good one, I know most of the TR specialist.

As my clutch slave cylinder is a modern replacement it is not a suitable candidate for Pastparts.

I cannot get Pastparts website to load properly tonight so do not know if they stock repaired replacements, I will have to phone them in the morning.

Any recommendations would be much appreciated.

Thank you,

Mick.     

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2 hours ago, mhossack said:

Hi I first started asking for help on the 30/5/21 and started taking notes from the very helpful replies.

I had a planned minor operation which required me to take it easy for 12 weeks, no heavy lifting, that is the reason for the delay to carry out the work.

I made a start today, the first job was to remove the clutch slave cylinder.

Unfortunately although it was replaced 5 years ago before I purchased the car, the cylinder bore and piston are pitted beyond repair.

The question, as my clutch slave cylinder needs replacing, can anyone recommend where I can get a good one, I know most of the TR specialist.

As my clutch slave cylinder is a modern replacement it is not a suitable candidate for Pastparts.

I cannot get Pastparts website to load properly tonight so do not know if they stock repaired replacements, I will have to phone them in the morning.

Any recommendations would be much appreciated.

Thank you,

Mick.     

Mick - I have a small stock of OE TR5/6 clutch slave cylinders which I am prepared to sell outright and which have been rebuilt by Pat Parts - PM me if of interest - they were on my stall at Malvern but no takers!!

Cheers Rich

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On 6/2/2021 at 4:52 PM, John L said:

So you put it into any gear, without the engine running, pushing the car, does it turn the engine over?  I would think it will be the middle of the clutch plate that is broken away from the lining as stated earlier in another post, there was a problem with the clutch plates and the number of rivets holding the linings to the centre part.

John

Re-Pro Borg and Beck which are not OEM as First Line have bought the Trading name, made these Re-pro ones in China and have only 8 rivets and s/b 16 as original OEM. They have now amended that to 16 rivets. If it turns out to be that problem and you know who supplied the clutch you have a case against the supplier. Not fit for purpose? You might be able to get a free replacement?

Bruce.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Hi I now have time to try and sought out my clutch hydraulic problems.

First I am going to check for mechanical wear in all the moving parts, and replace where necessary.

Can anyone please tell me what the original specification/dimension is for the clutch master cylinder movement/travel.

Thank you,

Mick.

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35 minutes ago, mhossack said:

Thank you Mike C

I am after the clutch master cylinder movement, not the clutch slave cylinder movement. 

Mick.

Hi Mick,

If it's in the car you can get a full pedal from the stop to the floor. If the MC's out of the car hopefully someone else can provide the advice you require.

 

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8 hours ago, mhossack said:

Hi can someone please tell me what size bore clutch slave cylinder they are using with the original Girling clutch master cylinder .70 bore size.

Thank you,

Mick.

You don’t need any parts as I said elsewhere restrict the bleed pipe you are using and also you could have broken the taper pin and the last place I would buy would be past parts 

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Hi ntc

Curious what is the problem with pastparts.

My non original clutch slave cylinder pitted beyond repair, and it seemed a good time to renew all the clutch hydraulics. 

It was working with a non original 3/4 clutch master cylinder and 7/8 clutch slave cylinder, I decide to replace with a NOS Girling clutch master cylinder .70 which now seems a mistake, but it should work, with the correct clutch slave cylinder.

My main problem is I purchased my 1975 TR6 from a non TR specialist (nobody forced me to buy the car) and he converted from LHD to RHD, unfortunately he cut corners all the time to save money.

Example I found 50 bullet connectors in the old US wiring loom where there should be none, now rewired by me.

My questions may seem strange, but I need facts from correct UK cars, I have just found he has reused the old US clutch pedal, and had to weld a piece of metal at the top, so I have no idea what the correct specifications are for a UK car or where to find them.

If any one knows if these are available please let me know.

I have a clutch operation calculator that shows a .7 clutch master cylinder and 1 inch clutch slave cylinder are marginal on slave cylinder movement.

That is the reason why I asked what clutch slave cylinders people are using with there .7 clutch master cylinder, suppliers either don't give the bore size or some say 1 inch.

I am also going to post a drawing of the clutch master cylinder movement that I am after, I seem just to get the same 15mm slave cylinder movement quoted.

Thank you,

Mick. 

 

Edited by mhossack
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19 minutes ago, mhossack said:

Hi ntc

Curious what is the problem with pastparts.

My non original clutch slave cylinder pitted beyond repair, and it seemed a good time to renew all the clutch hydraulics. 

It was working with a non original 3/4 clutch master cylinder and 7/8 clutch slave cylinder, I decide to replace with a NOS Girling clutch master cylinder .70 which now seems a mistake, but it should work, with the correct clutch slave cylinder.

My main problem is I purchased my 1975 TR6 from a non TR specialist (nobody forced me to buy the car) and he converted from LHD to RHD, unfortunately he cut corners all the time to save money.

Example I found 50 bullet connectors in the old US wiring loom where there should be none, now rewired by me.

My questions may seem strange, but I need facts from correct UK cars, I have just found he has reused the old US clutch pedal, and had to weld a piece of metal at the top, so I have no idea what the correct specifications are for a UK car or where to find them.

If any one knows if these are available please let me know.

I have a clutch operation calculator that shows a .7 clutch master cylinder and 1 inch clutch slave cylinder are marginal on slave cylinder movement.

That is the reason why I asked what clutch slave cylinders people are using with there .7 clutch master cylinder, suppliers either don't give the bore size or some say 1 inch.

I am also going to post a drawing of the clutch master cylinder movement that I am after, I seem just to get the same 15mm slave cylinder movement quoted.

Thank you,

Mick. 

 

If you get 15mm at the slave then you are not far off. I suspect you have broken the taper pin .

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Hi ntc

I am after the movement at the clutch master cylinder, not the clutch slave cylinder.

At the moment I am getting 23mm clutch master cylinder movement, but with all the bodges I have no idea what it should be.

With both new clutch cylinders I should be getting 11.31mm clutch slave cylinder movement which I doubt would be enough, but at the moment I am only getting 8/9mm movement which is almost certainly not enough.

I have no reason to doubt the clutch slave cylinder movement should be approximately 15mm, where has this figure come from Triumph must have the specification correct, but where can I find it. 

I now have no reason to think I have a clutch problem, I think it is a hydraulic problem.

Thank you,

Mick.

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5 minutes ago, mhossack said:

Hi ntc

I am after the movement at the clutch master cylinder, not the clutch slave cylinder.

At the moment I am getting 23mm clutch master cylinder movement, but with all the bodges I have no idea what it should be.

With both new clutch cylinders I should be getting 11.31mm clutch slave cylinder movement which I doubt would be enough, but at the moment I am only getting 8/9mm movement which is almost certainly not enough.

I have no reason to doubt the clutch slave cylinder movement should be approximately 15mm, where has this figure come from Triumph must have the specification correct, but where can I find it. 

I now have no reason to think I have a clutch problem, I think it is a hydraulic problem.

Thank you,

Mick.

Good luck with your theory but the slave will only move so far and at that the master is doing it’s job and the measurement is what I have found correct over many years of experience 

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