Z320 Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 Good morning everybody, I had the differenial out some times, also the prop shaft, but do not remember what happened yesterday: moving the prop shaft flange from the diff flange "an amount" of oil poured over me. Looking at the illustration at the work shop manual it seems likely oil can go there. Did I forget this happend before or is ths new? Enjoy your Sunday, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Schnippel Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 Hello Marco, this can be called normal. The oil runs through the teeth of the cardan flange. The oil also comes through the side flange. here it runs through the groove of the feather key. So always put a little silicone sealant under the washer / flange and it stays tight. The toothing is best glued with Loctite to exclude micro-movements. The reason for the sometimes far too large tolerances on the toothing, which has the consequence that the bearing preload decreases. You can then loosen the castle nut with your fingers! Best wishes Ralf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 Yes to the oil seepage along the pinion spline and into the area the flange nut is. Fix or reduce the problem by using sealant under the big washer. Triumph fitted a cap over the area on Spitfire etc item 28 here. https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/spitfire/clutch-transmission-drivetrain/axles-differentials/rear-axle-spitfire-mki-1500-1962-80.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted May 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 Hi Ralf and Peter, thank you for your aswers and confirmation for this issue. As I want to reduce projects I will check whether the nut is tight and do nothing else there. Perhaps I could use a paper seal between the flanges to, but I don't remember much oil there - until I disconnected them. I should have some rags handy next time.... Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted May 16, 2021 Report Share Posted May 16, 2021 It is worth as stated above removing the split pin and re torquing the pinion nut to re load the pinion bearings, while you have access. Blob of sealant under the washer. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted May 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) Hi Ralf and Peter, indeed the castle nut was loosen and it was able to twist the flang while shaft and nut did not move. Could it be the reasopn why I never realized that massiv oli there as it poured over me a few days ago: this was tight and became slack. All is out and this could be the moment to change the lip seal too - if this is possible while the diff is still in the car. It looks like big concentric "shim" holds it in position with the 4 nuts holing also the crossmember. Ciao, Marco Edited May 22, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted May 22, 2021 Report Share Posted May 22, 2021 4 hours ago, Z320 said: Hi Ralf and Peter, indeed the castle nut was loosen and it was able to twist the flang while shaft and nut did not move. Could it be the reasopn why I never realized that massiv oli there as it poured over me a few days ago: this was tight and became slack. All is out and this could be the moment to change the lip seal too - if this is possible while the diff is still in the car. It looks like big concentric "shim" holds it in position with the 4 nuts holing also the crossmember. Ciao, Marco Under the heads of the bolts that hold the front support bracket to the differential case there may be star washers. If so remove them to extract and refit the diff nose seal as they overhang the diameter of the seal housing area and stop the seal going in or out. Consider too using speedi sleeve on the pinion drive flange if the seal area is grooved. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted May 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2021 Hi Peter, thank you, in this case I let it in position and only tight up the nut, it was never much unsealed, just that much as you expect it from a car of the 60-ies. Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted May 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 While I'm waiting for the 1 1/8 socket to torque the nut I ask myself how it can become slack with the wire in? Is there a problem with the spacer and a need to shim the bearings of the pinion new? Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 Wear in the bearing? FWIW, the threads in my pinion nut stripped and it wouldn’t hold its torque. I had to buy a new nut. The pinion was ok because that is much higher quality material. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 3 hours ago, Z320 said: While I'm waiting for the 1 1/8 socket to torque the nut I ask myself how it can become slack with the wire in? Is there a problem with the spacer and a need to shim the bearings of the pinion new? Ciao, Marco I have noticed fretting between the outer bearing inner race and the end of the drive flange that abuts it. Look at yours, is it as new or has it signs of wear? The ‘pack’ of spacer and shims between the two bearings is probably not worn. There are two actions on the drive flange. Rotation from the engine (drive) or the axle via the diff. (Over run) Plus axial from the reaction between the hypoid bevel gear and the crown wheel. In both drive and over run. Hence the bigger bearing under the pinion head that takes the most axial load. Those movements I suspect account for the fretting between drive flange and the first bearing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted May 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 (edited) Hi Peter, thank you for switching the light on! It can't be the bearings and not the distancer and shims between, it could only be what you descripe or the solid washer is punched / worn / bended! This would make it passible to retorque it with not very much worry. Sadly I'm out for work until 18:00, I take a look later. Ciao, Marco Edited May 25, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 (edited) Marco, If you are concerned the bearing pre load may be wrong now……. Before refitting a new seal. Check torque to turn drive flange before tightening the pinion nut. Use spring balance and fixed lever length. Note this figure. Assemble the drive flange +washer+ nut and torque the nut to its intended tightness. Check the drive flange torque to turn diff now using same lever and spring balance. NB. - There is a figure for bearing pre load in the workshop manual. Do a simple sum to determine the increase in torque required now the bearings are pretty loaded. That is your bearing pre load. If you like what you find, remove flange, fit seal, fit flange with a sealant under the washer and torque nut. Fitting a split pin is not easy, which is why the wire is used. Peter W PS. Here is my bearing pre load gauge in use to check crank torque at each stage of engine assembly. It measures in inch pounds. Edited May 25, 2021 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 That's a nice tool, puts my T bar and spring balance set up to shame. I'll think about making one. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted May 25, 2021 Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 24 minutes ago, Motorsport Mickey said: That's a nice tool, puts my T bar and spring balance set up to shame. I'll think about making one. Mick Richards Speeds up diff building too, when setting the pinion bearing pre load of 15-18 ins lbs. There was a Churchill tool specifically for Triumph. Mine is ex Austin Morris. Cheers Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted May 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 Hi Peter, I only want to make a fast repair and to understand what I do.... This is the very solid washer (4.5 mm) from the nut side, not very special? After about 10 times sliding on fine sand paper the same side looks like this.... It is punched in the center and high outside where it sits on the drive flange. On the toothed side (to the diff) it looks worse like this, the teeth of the flange are visible. After silding this side on fine sand paper... I will use it again and just tight it up correctly, the diff worked well about 10 years with some more clonks the last 2 years. Good to know this very solid washer is not solid enought, but perhaps enough for the next 10 years. Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted May 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2021 (edited) Torque is 120-130 Nm? Edited May 27, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted May 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2021 1 1/8" socket was in yesterday, with the nut 130 Nm tight I found a suitable position to fit the wire. To tight the nut up with the diff in the car was no problem with my handbrake slightly pulled, means it holds without problems 130 Nm x 3.7 = 480 Nm. Or is my calculation wrong? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted June 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 A 100 km drive today was with one kind of annoying "clonk" less, I'm pleased Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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