Warning! Dangerous product

[ijonsson]

3 hours ago, saffrontr said:

Salutary tale indeed. I have had one of these hoses with the unclamped red ends fitted since 1999 when it was changed during an engine rebuild and I have many images of the engine bays of other TR6's showing unclamped red ended hoses, in fact have a look on the TR5 forum and you will see that CP2 which is currently for sale at Sherwood Restorations also has one. Do I and others have a problem I guess that is the question that can't be answered unless we have our own pipes tested?  Maybe I should replace mine anyway as it is now 22 years old but what would I replace it with? 

In the short term I am going to fit some pipe clips at least until someone comes back with a source of pressure tested hoses.

Derek  

The unclamped ones are probably done like the old one we used a hacksaw on, to liberate the hose fitting. the ruptured new hose end seen to the left.

[astontr6]

27 minutes ago, Peter V W said:

This is my hose, from moss. I’m no expert but it looks a better option.

That is the same design as mine but mine came from Spectrum Hose where I supplied the Gates barricade hose.

Bruce.

[RogerH]

Hi Folks,

there is a great deal of background work going on from Rimmers, the manufacturers, the PQI team and others.

The manufacturers may need some time to get a precise feel on this issue.

So, don;t panic but do inspect your hoses before and after a trip (belt and braces)

if you can set up a video camera on the pipe with an monitor on ther dashboard that would help (jesting )

Please keep post relevant to the directly to the issue in hand - otherwise the thread will be toooooo big to understand in the future

 

Roger 

 

[michaeldavis39]

Sounds good Roger as this is a very serious safety issue- I am thankful that no lives have been lost- not everyone with a TR6 is in this forum but obviously the suppliers will issue  recall notices to all customers thankfully.

[RogerH]

40 minutes ago, michaeldavis39 said:

Sounds good Roger as this is a very serious safety issue- I am thankful that no lives have been lost- not everyone with a TR6 is in this forum but obviously the suppliers will issue  recall notices to all customers thankfully.

Hi Michael,

 any recall would be based upon what the investigation outcome is.  Even then I think a recall would be rather optimistic    

The best that could be hoped for would be a warning notice in the TR magazine and making the other clubs aware.should it be required.

 

Roger

 

 

[astontr6]

40 minutes ago, michaeldavis39 said:

Sounds good Roger as this is a very serious safety issue- I am thankful that no lives have been lost- not everyone with a TR6 is in this forum but obviously the suppliers will issue  recall notices to all customers thankfully.

Hi Michael,

If you are looking for full traceability that would be rocket science to the likes of Rimmer. We are not in the Aero Space Industry. Its up to the customers to do the fault finding!!!!!

Bruce.

[ntc]

Give them time to find out! When was the last time you bought a new car and it was faultless? Be clad that you can get parts as I said is this the only one.

[KiwiTR6]

I checked and found that my car also has this particular part.  We only have one supplier of ethanol mixed fuel here and I never use their stations so the only concern for me was the lack of clamps on the fittings.  I have a set of Oetiker pliers so the problem was easily fixed by removing the hose at the MU, sliding on 2 x 20mm clamps and securing these in place. 

[Mike C]

I've  used two jubilee clamps with the heads spaced 180 degrees apart. Last time I checked the FS on the WP was better than 2. The important thing is to use hose that's both suitable for your fuel and a tight fit on the piping.

[BlairP]

Below are pics of my hose, which is like the faulty one in appearance, but which is stamp-labeled "Aeroquip FC596-06 AQP exceeds SAE 100R6." Some Internet research shows it withstands pressure of up to 350-400 PSI, so I've attached some stout Jubilee clips to the ends which I think should do the trick. That said, I too have the possibility of installing clamps like KiwiTR6 did above.

Is one better than the other?

Blair

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

53 minutes ago, BlairP said:

Below are pics of my hose, which is like the faulty one in appearance, but which is stamp-labeled "Aeroquip FC596-06 AQP exceeds SAE 100R6." Some Internet research shows it withstands pressure of up to 350-400 PSI, so I've attached some stout Jubilee clips to the ends which I think should do the trick. That said, I too have the possibility of installing clamps like KiwiTR6 did above.

Is one better than the other?

Blair

Off topic.

Is the bleed nipple for your clutch slave cylinder in the upper outlet?  
b**g** to bleed otherwise.
Peter W

[astontr6]

16 hours ago, ntc said:

Give them time to find out! When was the last time you bought a new car and it was faultless? Be clad that you can get parts as I said is this the only one.

As far as I am concerned one incident like this could have had a very different out come in the way of death having worked in the fire hazard industry for over 40 years!

Bruce.

[astontr6]

10 hours ago, KiwiTR6 said:

I checked and found that my car also has this particular part.  We only have one supplier of ethanol mixed fuel here and I never use their stations so the only concern for me was the lack of clamps on the fittings.  I have a set of Oetiker pliers so the problem was easily fixed by removing the hose at the MU, sliding on 2 x 20mm clamps and securing these in place. 

The use of Oetiker '0' Clips is a very good way to go for secure clamping. They work well in areas of vibration.

Bruce.

[JohnG]

On 5/28/2021 at 9:47 AM, astontr6 said:

I would not fit any HP hose without swaged sleeves? I know that Aeroquip manufacture a screw together fitting but it is not suitable for rubber but ok for PTFE tubing. I am not certain what the principle is of this fitting that has failed?

Bruce.

 

Like most hose manufactures/suppliers, Aeroquip do variety of hose end fittings;

Push fit

Reuseable

Pallet swaged (one piece shown, 2 piece to NCB 174 also available)

 

Their push fit is adequate, meeting the spec and demands of the application, IF the correct rubber wire braided or nylon braided hose is used

Reuseables should only really be used with wire braided hose

(1 wire 100R1 or 2 wire 100R2)

The most reliable is pallet swaged, either 1 piece (shown) or 2 piece.

Me

I wouldn't use reuseable

My knee jerk is to go pallet swaged, but, push fit have come on in the past 10 years, so, with investigation, I might be persuaded

No hose end fitting should be reused, EVER

 

Note; the push fit shown is Aeroquip, the others, generic, but, all are very similar

 

[Waldi]

SAE J100 is a specification for low pressure hydraulic oil hoses.
It is also suitable for diesel, but not for bio-diesel.
I could not find information it is suitable fro E5, let alone E10.

So I doubt this is an acceptable hose for out application.

Waldi

 

[astontr6]

5 minutes ago, JohnG said:

 

Like most hose manufactures/suppliers, Aeroquip do variety of hose end fittings;

Push fit

Reuseable

Pallet swaged (one piece shown, 2 piece to NCB 174 also available)

 

Their push fit is adequate, meeting the spec and demands of the application, IF the correct rubber wire braided or nylon braided hose is used

Reuseables should only really be used with wire braided hose (1 or 2 wire)

The most reliable is pallet swaged, either 1 piece (shown) or 2 piece.

Me

I wouldn't use reuseable

My knee jerk is to go pallet swaged, but, push fit have come on in the past 10 years, so, with investigation, I might be persuaded

No hose end fitting should be reused, EVER

 

Note; the push fit shown is Aeroquip, the others, generic, but, all are very similar

 

Thanks for your response. The push fit type from Aeroquip, do you know what their working max pressure is? When you say wire braided is that internal or external?

Bruce.

[astontr6]

14 minutes ago, astontr6 said:

Thanks for your response. The push fit type from Aeroquip, do you know what their working max pressure is? When you say wire braided is that internal or external?

Bruce.

Further to my thread to you I have read some of the spec. sheets on the internet and like you I am not certain that they can be used in petrol applications as the manufactures of these fittings do not seem to have a dedicated hose for petrol but do for other liquids ? One needs to have a conversation with their technical sales dept. which I will do next week.

Bruce

[RogerH]

Hi Folks,

you seem to be scare mongering. The investigation report has not been compiled yet from the manufacturer via Rimmer.

 

The hose in question is rated at in excess of SAE 100/R6 what ever that means. 

Bearing in mind that that worst it will get is E5 in the UK at present and typically 0% Ethanol

The manufacturer is a world class supplier/manufacturer of oil and petrol piping.

 

Please do not get your knockers knickers in a twist until the final report is posted.

 

Roger

Edited May 29, 2021 by RogerH

[SpitFireSIX]

I thought E5 = 5% Ethanol?

[RogerH]

26 minutes ago, SpitFireSIX said:

I thought E5 = 5% Ethanol?

E5 is a maximum of 5%.

Esso, Shell, & Texaco   reportedly state that their super duper petrol has no Ethanol but have to mark it E5

 

Roger 

Edited May 29, 2021 by RogerH

[BlairP]

9 hours ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Off topic.

Is the bleed nipple for your clutch slave cylinder in the upper outlet?  
b**g** to bleed otherwise.
Peter W

Hi Peter, and thanks for your comment. Are you saying the slave cylinder should be flipped in its socket to have the bleed nipple on top? Easier to do it now if so...

Blair

[Hamish]

5 minutes ago, BlairP said:

Hi Peter, and thanks for your comment. Are you saying the slave cylinder should be flipped in its socket to have the bleed nipple on top? Easier to do it now if so...

Blair

Yup. 

[SpitFireSIX]

17 minutes ago, RogerH said:

E5 is a maximum of 5%.

Esso, Shell, & Texaco   reportedly state that their super duper petrol has no Ethanol but have to mark it E5

 

Roger 

Thanks.
I should have said

E5 =<5% Ethanol. 

Cheers,

Iain.

[JohnG]

2 hours ago, astontr6 said:

Thanks for your response. The push fit type from Aeroquip, do you know what their working max pressure is? When you say wire braided is that internal or external?

Bruce.

Hi

AQP socketless; 250psi (17 bar) and -40°c to +150°c

You can get the full Aeroquip hose catalogue as a pdf from www.eaton.com

 

Wire braiding is over the inner rubber hose and under the rubber cover.

 

Roger is right with regards fuel spec hose sae100R6, which has, I think, nylon braid, rather than wire

 

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

5 hours ago, BlairP said:

Hi Peter, and thanks for your comment. Are you saying the slave cylinder should be flipped in its socket to have the bleed nipple on top? Easier to do it now if so...

Blair

You might find the bleeed nipple hole is the same as the hose hole.  In which case just move the bleed nipple.   If not rotate the cylinder by 180 degrees.

Peter W

Edited May 29, 2021 by BlueTR3A-5EKT