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Thinking of electronic ignition for my 66 tr4a. Is this a good idea and if so which one also cannot lock my drivers side door as the internals seem to have been reversed has anyone had similar problem and how to cure

 

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Many learned folk on here like sticking with points/condenser (decent quality from Distributer Doctor or fully refurb dissy from the same).

Personally, I would switch to electronic ignition. Range from points replacement  Accuspark/powerspark/Aldon (Pertronix) Ignitor type (Depending on pocket-depth), some like Lumenition Optronic (I’m not a fan). Top of the price range goes to CSI/123Ignition electronic replacement distributors.

If you want just points replacement I’d go Pertronix.

I’m sure there will be some more views .... Andy 

Edited by AndyR100
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24 minutes ago, PJs said:

Thinking of electronic ignition for my 66 tr4a. Is this a good idea

Why do you want to?   Before you decide, there are things to consider:

A properly-adjusted points system in a distributor in good condition works just fine and is reliable if you use good quality parts.  Unfortunately people tend to fit electronic ignition to mask the effects of worn-out units which is really not the right thing to do. Electronic ignition on its own will not improve engine power either, despite what the adverts say. If the car does seem to feel better its probably because the mechanical system is worn and wasn't working properly. 

One advantage of electronic ignition is to remove the need for periodic maintenance and adjustment of the points. There are several types of electronic ignition from the points-replacement type to a full-blown electronic distributor like the 123.  The in-distributor modules use the existing mechanical advance and vacuum mechanisms so cannot compensate for wear in those parts.  The replacement distributors have adjustable advance curves so you can attempt to better match the engine requirements, though that would need a rolling-road session to do properly. 

If your dizzy is in good nick and working well, there is little advantage in going electronic.  If it isn't in good condition then perhaps the money would be better spent in getting it refurbished by the DD. 

Edited by RobH
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23 minutes ago, PJs said:

Thinking of electronic ignition for my 66 tr4a. Is this a good idea and if so which one also cannot lock my drivers side door as the internals seem to have been reversed has anyone had similar problem and how to cure

 

Hi,

The contact breakers are still a good bet for the TR4A. They do not occasional adjustment but is easy to do (TRy it on a TR7 :o)

I use a Lumention magnetronic module that fits in the dizzy - expensive bit good,  Similar items on Ebay and cheaper.

The door handles are handed. Have you got the correct handle on the correct side.

There are also a number of bits that wear out on the inside of the handle.  It needs to be taken apart and looked at bit by bit.

There are a number of posts showing  some good tips - TRy the search

Roger

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+1 for 123

I have one of the old ones that is not mappable from a PC. It can be adjusted using an allen key from the underside but it all has simple instructions

and timing it up is wonderfully simple and easily repeatable .

Michael

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Just to add to Bob’s comment, if you do choose to go the Pertronix route you may find a fair price at https://vintageperformance.com/retrorockets/lucas.htm depending on current exchange rates. 

The interesting point is that the item will be dispatched to you from within the UK (their premises are close where I live), so no need to worry about a customs import bill :) 

....... Andy 

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My Newtronic/Piranha system was installed in 1993.  Apart from minor adjustment of Advance/Retard to accommodate changes from Leaded to Unleaded fuel, have not needed to touch the ignition system in 28 years.

Not sure these are being supplied for cars now - references seem to be to motorbikes.

Glad I have a brand new spare unit, just in case!

Ian Cornish

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I have just installed a Powerspark unit in the distributor of my '66 4a and included a 'Bosch Blue Coil' - £34.95 + £24.80

from:  https://simonbbc.com/Powerspark-Electronic-Ignition-Kit-for-Lucas-25D--DM2-Distributor-K2--R1

Very easy to fit and it has improved the engine running as it was getting a bit iffy at higher revs.

Now I know this could have been fixed by getting the points spot on (I think they were pretty good anyway), ensuring that the condenser was spot on, and ensuring that there were no issues with my old coil (I've already got a new cap and leads).

But by buying the above package I've taken those out of the equation and it now runs nicely and will hopefully be a bit more reliable in the future with less maintenance (I read that the condenser can often be the weak link, now gone). I'll carry the old items as breakdown spares.

Obviously the unit has not stood the test of time yet, but it gets good reviews.

Hope this experience helps.

Ali.

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Ali. 

Rather than carry the "old" items as breakdown spares why not carry a spare Powerspark.

It will be much easier & quicker to fit, & the timing won't change.

Bob.

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17 minutes ago, Malbaby said:

Is the "powerspark" unit manufactured in the UK or elsewhere?

I would be surprised if it is manufactured in the UK - you could drop an enquiry to the supplier sales@simonbbc.com , I’m sure they could confirm.

....... Andy 

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+1 for Pertronix plus Flame Thrower ignition coil.  For those who like to maintain originality new parts are hidden inside the distributor so not detectable without removing the cap.

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12 hours ago, Ali King said:

Now I know this could have been fixed by getting the points spot on (I think they were pretty good anyway), ensuring that the condenser was spot on, and ensuring that there were no issues with my old coil (I've already got a new cap and leads).

 

Ali.

Distributor problems at higher RPM are a bit more than new bits, wear in the spindle bearing and incorrect or worn advance weights and springs etc.

Fitting the hall effect type electronic will improve to a certain extent but there is still improvements to be made by having the dizzy properly rebuilt.

Stuart.

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21 hours ago, Lebro said:

Ali. 

Rather than carry the "old" items as breakdown spares why not carry a spare Powerspark.

It will be much easier & quicker to fit, & the timing won't change.

Bob.

Hi Bob, that's very tempting, and I may do soon. However, for now I think it will have to go some way down my list of things to do/get - for everything one thing I do I seem to add two more things to the list! (e.g. see below).

 

9 hours ago, stuart said:

Distributor problems at higher RPM are a bit more than new bits, wear in the spindle bearing and incorrect or worn advance weights and springs etc.

Fitting the hall effect type electronic will improve to a certain extent but there is still improvements to be made by having the dizzy properly rebuilt.

Stuart.

Hi Stuart, yes I can understand that, and my advance mechanism feels a bit *anky (technical term - I'm not sure it's used/allowed in these circles). Is there an easy way of checking the distributor mechanics (any links?). Thanks.

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Hello from a "Newbie"...I have collected a newly acquired TR4a very recently, and drove it home and one short local trip since, totalling about 275 miles.  The engine and transmission are being run in and the car is at c. 500 miles run from an overhaul.

I have noticed on the last trip that the engine is pinking and running on when the ignition switch is turned off for a couple of seconds, indicating that the valve timing if a wee bit too far advanced...it came with an AccuSpark Electronic ignition unit instead of the Lucas 25D4 Distributor.  Being old school I have purchased a reconditioned Distributor from Martin Jay, the Distributor Doctor and am going to install this in place of the AccuSpark unit.

My query relates to Valve Timing - the Workshop Manual and Haynes Manual both say that the Ignition timing should be set at 4 degrees BTDC as a basic setting, with the Points Gap at 15 thou Imp, and the spark plug gaps set at 25 thou Imp.  I intend to do this on a static timed basis before dynamically timing using a strobe.  Is the setting of 4 degrees still the right one with modern Standard Unleaded (with the evil 5% "green Ethanol"), or should I set it differently?  The car's vendor mentioned that you should start at about 14 degrees BTDC, and originally it was set at 10 degrees BTDC...

Secondly do you think that by running the engine too far advanced for about 275 miles would have damaged it in any way...?

I would really appreciate advice from those that have "been there, done that"...!

Mark

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On 4/1/2021 at 9:35 AM, mrehke said:

 

My query relates to Valve Timing - the Workshop Manual and Haynes Manual both say that the Ignition timing should be set at 4 degrees BTDC as a basic setting, with the Points Gap at 15 thou Imp, and the spark plug gaps set at 25 thou Imp.  I intend to do this on a static timed basis before dynamically timing using a strobe.  Is the setting of 4 degrees still the right one with modern Standard Unleaded (with the evil 5% "green Ethanol"), or should I set it differently?  The car's vendor mentioned that you should start at about 14 degrees BTDC, and originally it was set at 10 degrees BTDC...

Secondly do you think that by running the engine too far advanced for about 275 miles would have damaged it in any way...?

 

Hi Mark,

i’m assuming the valve timing was set correctly when your engine was refurbished.

for the ignition timing the book says 4 degrees btdc, from memory I think I have seen folk recommend anything between 4-8 degrees btdc as the static timing start-point, bearing in mind that that is initial, you’d then adjust again as part of your tuning and what you encounter when driving. In your case, it sounds like you are a little too far advanced with pinking and running on.

I’m sure others will add some additional thoughts (surprised you hadn’t had a few more replies already)

lastly, I doubt any big problems have been caused in your last 275 miles - i’d just fit your DD refurbed dissy and take it from there and enjoy your new car :) 

........ Andy 

 

Edited by AndyR100
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Many thanks Andy...I spoke with the Distributor Doctor, Martin Jay, who recommended setting the valve timing on a Dynamic basis at 10 degrees BTDC, but if pinking to change the timing to 8 degrees BTDC.

Have done so with a Strobe, initially at about 8 degrees BTDC and seemingly running better, albeit running on marginally when ignition is switched off - could this be running too rich and need to reset the carbs (HS6s)? 

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Running on indicated that something in the combustion chamber is getting hotter than it should. This could be due to the mixture being too weak, or possibly too much carbon build up.

Check colour of the plugs, if they look to be ok (nice light brown on the insulator) then the other option would be to try using a set of plugs 1 grade cooler.

Bob.

Edited by Lebro
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I had running on with a lesser grade fuel. V power sorted it.

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16 hours ago, mrehke said:

Many thanks Andy...I spoke with the Distributor Doctor, Martin Jay, who recommended ......

 

You spoke to him?    I've been emailing him in vain for a week!    Does he not 'do' emails?  

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On 4/6/2021 at 8:38 AM, Lebro said:

Running on indicated that something in the combustion chamber is getting hotter than it should. This could be due to the mixture being too weak, or possibly too much carbon build up.

Check colour of the plugs, if they look to be ok (nice light brown on the insulator) then the other option would be to try using a set of plugs 1 grade cooler.

Bob.

Bob -

 

Many thanks for your advice.  All 4 plugs are of a good light brown colour on the insulator - I am using NGK BP6HS 4511 Spark Plugs with a copper core...am running on Standard Fuel, so may try Premium to see if that makes a difference.

Unless you tell me to try another model of NGKs I will try getting the mixture a wee bit richer...she did not run on at the crack of Dawn this morning, but it was ambient temperature of minus 4 degrees C here, "feels like minus 9 degrees C" stationary, so with wind chill factor added I dressed in my Arctic Survival gear - 5 layers on my torso and 2 layers elsewhere!  The issue was driving 1 1/4 hours with no roof on whatsoever...that's another story!

 

Mark

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Personally, I wouldn’t go any colder than your current plug, try a tank-full of Shell VPower or Tesco99 and see how it goes.

...... Andy 

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10 hours ago, AndyR100 said:

Personally, I wouldn’t go any colder than your current plug, try a tank-full of Shell VPower or Tesco99 and see how it goes.

...... Andy 

Andy

Many thanks for the tip...Will do when I get my car back from a specialist TR garage...a "bit" of fettling being done, with hood frame and hood being fitted.

 

Mark

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