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The classiccarleds H4 LED bulbs are very good, & I was told that one of the differences between these & most of the cheaper ones is that although they all start off bright, as the LED chips get hot (which they all do) the light output drops on the cheaper ones. 

Bob.

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11 minutes ago, Lebro said:

The classiccarleds H4 LED bulbs are very good, & I was told that one of the differences between these & most of the cheaper ones is that although they all start off bright, as the LED chips get hot (which they all do) the light output drops on the cheaper ones. 

Bob.

Hi Bob,

that is indeed a significant issue and would be worth a comparison. I wonder who would be the besr people to carry this out.

 

Roger

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I have had the Night Eyes fitted for over two years now. This has included a couple of all night drives using headlights for hours on end and so far I have noticed no falling off in performance. It is noticeable that after prolonged headlight use the bowls are cool to the touch and, also, when driving in snow it can accumulate on the headlight lenses whereas when using lights with conventional H4 halogen bulbs the heat generated melts the snow, avoiding accumulation, another demonstration of how much more efficient LED bulbs are at converting energy into light rather than heat.

I remain delighted with my Night Eye bulbs, particularly as they actually cost less than some of the fancy uprated halogens now on the market. For me the really big bonus is the significantly reduced power consumption since I am still running with a dynamo.

Tim 

 

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I had purchased a full car set of LED lamps from Duncan @ Classiccarleds, so I'm glad to see sense has prevailed, I suspect that whovere drafted the first rule change hadn't thought it through properly. Duncan's led headlamps have been improved to give a beam pattern at least as good as the original; the heat sinks at the back of the headlamps also address the heat issue

Glad I stuck with it!

David

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MOT special notice 01-21: headlamp conversions

Published 19 March 2021

1. About headlamp conversions

Section 4.1.4 of the current MOT inspection manuals for both motorcycles and cars and passenger vehicles states ‘Existing halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.’

2. Changes to current rules

From 22 March 2021, we’re changing these rules so that not all motorcycles and vehicles will fail the MOT test if their halogen headlamp units have been converted to be used with HID or LED bulbs.

Class 1 and 2 motorcycles

Class 1 and 2 motorcycles must not be failed for the defect ‘Light source and lamp not compatible’.

Headlamps must comply with all other requirements of the test and headlamp aim.

The motorcycle inspection manual will be updated shortly, and the ability to select the defect within the MOT testing service will be removed.

Class 3,4,5 and 7 vehicles

For class 3,4,5 and 7 vehicles, the defect ‘Light source and lamp not compatible’ only applies to vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986.

Should a vehicle be presented for an MOT test with conversions before 1 April 1986 they must not be failed with immediate effect.

Vehicles presented with converted halogen headlamp units first used on or after 1 April 1986 will continue to be failed.

Headlamps must comply with all other requirements of the test and headlamp aim.

The cars and passenger vehicles inspection manual will be updated shortly.

 

Great news, so I hope that ends all the fuss about LED bulbs being illegal !

Bob.

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Thanks Bob, very helpful, common sense has prevailed. I agree that part of the new guidance is very badly worded and open to an unintended interpretation. 

Should a vehicle be presented for an MOT test with conversions before 1 April 1986 they must not be failed with immediate effect.

Vehicles presented with converted halogen headlamp units first used on or after 1 April 1986 will continue to be failed. 

How much clearer it would be if the sentences in red were reworded thus:

Should a vehicle first used before 1 April 1986 be presented for test with headlamps converted to use HID or LED bulbs it should not be failed with immediate effect.

Vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986 presented with converted halogen headlamp units will continue to be failed.

I despair of the poor grasp of our language possessed by some who draft such documents.

Tim

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Slight digression only for anyone interested in rallying their TR. Have been checking MSA Blue Book today and there's a specific prohibition of LED headlamps for road rallying.

("18.5.5. Auxiliary lamps unless fitted as standard equipment using gas discharge or LED technology are not permitted and gas discharge or LED headlamp units may not be retro fitted.")

Nigel

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Maybe there is a get out since the prohibition covers LED headlamp units. Does this apply to an LED bub retro fitted in a headlamp that previously had a halogen H4 bub fitted? 

Tim

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1 hour ago, ntc said:

So topics all over the place now the mods should merge them so all makes sense.Bottom line the paper and the government made a right cock up and the chairman changed his lights for nothing 

Hi Neil,

was on this, but needs originators OK to switch, all now done, and all the March threads together, and to stay here in General Technical.

John.

Left Malcolms thread from January to stand alone.

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Should a vehicle be presented for an MOT test with conversions before 1 April 1986 they must not be failed with immediate effect.

Does anyone know of HID or LED technology being available for car headlights prior to 1986?

Vehicles presented with converted halogen headlamp units first used on or after 1 April 1986 will continue to be failed. 

This refers to the date of conversion, not the date the vehicle was first registered which could be in the 60s................

As an aside, I find the argument put forward for increased safety by the use of converted headlights/lights loses validity when the proponent removes the reflective number plates required on first registration and fits non reflective number plates..................................

Regards

Bill 

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4 hours ago, RogerH said:

There is still an issue. If you fit HID lamps to our cars it will dazzle on coming drivers.

Surely HID should be banned from any upgrade without the full equipment required to make them work correctly.

 

Roger

I thought that was already the case.

Pete

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'Should a vehicle be presented for an MOT test with conversions before 1 April 1986 they must not be failed with immediate effect.'

As others have said, what a totally ridiculous sentence - it is just hilarious!

'Should a vehicle be presented ...' - well maybe it should or shouldn't - you tell us.

'... with conversions before 1 April 1986 ... ' - well if it's been presented before that then it's a bit historic - oh you mean if the conversion was before then - how would you know when the conversion was done?

'... they must not ...' - that would be multiple vehicles then?

'... must not be failed ...' - even if the bulb doesn't work!?

'... not be failed with immediate effect.' - so can't be failed now, but perhaps can have a post-dated fail (i.e. with later effect), next week maybe?

In my previous life, if I had come across a spec or a report written like this it would have gone straight in the bin.

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oh you mean if the conversion was before then - how would you know when the conversion was done?

As before: Does anyone know of HID or LED technology being available for car headlights prior to 1986?

Regards

Bill 

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11 minutes ago, Bill944T said:

 

As before: Does anyone know of HID or LED technology being available for car headlights prior to 1986?

Regards

Bill 

Hi Bill,

they were both not available at or before that date.

 

Roger

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17 hours ago, tim hunt said:

Maybe there is a get out since the prohibition covers LED headlamp units. Does this apply to an LED bub retro fitted in a headlamp that previously had a halogen H4 bub fitted? 

Tim

I very much doubt it Tim. Scrutineers are I'm sure going to interpret it as no LEDs in headlights. It's entirely consistent with the general rule that only modifications that were  known to have been used in period are allowed.

(Anyone reading this - NB - this is about RALLYING, not about general use, MOTs etc).

Nigel

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Hi All,

I took my car in for an MoT today. I have recently installed LED headlights. Looks like the new guidance is in place as it wasn't queried. Even better, there was no need to re-align the beams!

Tim

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On 3/19/2021 at 5:23 PM, RogerH said:

There is still an issue. If you fit HID lamps to our cars it will dazzle on coming drivers.

Surely HID should be banned from any upgrade without the full equipment required to make them work correctly.

 

Roger

Properly aimed 35w Hids don’t necessarily dazzle any more than LEDs.

The 50w ones are stunningly bright but I would argue that those 35w I have had in my 6 for 10 years don’t and those in convoy with me haven’t raised it as an issue.

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16 minutes ago, Tim D. said:

Hi All,

I took my car in for an MoT today. I have recently installed LED headlights. Looks like the new guidance is in place as it wasn't queried. Even better, there was no need to re-align the beams!

Tim

Good to know that the revised guidance has landed :)

....... Andy 

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On 3/23/2021 at 6:01 PM, Tim D. said:

Hi All,

I took my car in for an MoT today. I have recently installed LED headlights. Looks like the new guidance is in place as it wasn't queried. Even better, there was no need to re-align the beams!

Tim

Thanks for the reassuring feedback Tim. Looks like we are now saved the hassle of swapping headlight bulbs just for the test.

Tim

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  • 1 month later...

From Osram's www, it gives the following approvals:

Alfa Romeo Giulietta

Audi A3

BMW 2 series Active/Gran Tourer

Ford Galaxy, Mondeo, S-Max

Opel Astra

Peugeot 308

Skoda Octavia

Volkswagon Passat/Polo

 

19 W, 1500 lm 6000 K

 

Typical price per pair: Euros 100.72, with adaptor 130.74, Smart canbus 31.50 to 67.99

 

Approved H7 low beam only in Germany. Right-hand traffic only. Driving in left-hand traffic (e.g. England) requires upgrading to Halogen lamps.

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